New to LEDs - PAR question on Hydra 52

[blstravler]

So I’m getting back into the hobby after a 12 year break. In the past I did all 400w MH so LED’s are new to me.

I currently have 2 Hydra 52’s over a 425xl in trying to understand the light output better I rented a PAR meter (MQ 500) from my LFS and I was kinda surprised at the readings so I’m looking for some feed back.

To sum up my questions - I’m getting a reading of about 280 20 inches from the LED’s - I though it would have been higher based on my settings but I’m new to LED’s so maybe this is what is expected? Below are the settings I got the PAR value I mentioned above - I thought it would have been much higher but maybe the distance from the light is the issue?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[blstravler]

Bump

 

[jda]

Is that under water, or in air? I honestly would not have thought that it would be that high. Those lights are going to make strong cones of light and then be weaker on the outsides. They are not powerhouse lights. They might be totally cool depending on what you want to keep, but you could also need more of them. What are you going to keep?

I have no idea what a 425xl is nor the dimensions, so I don't know what you are trying to cover.

 

[blstravler]

425xl is 48x22x22

20 inches is 10.5 above water and 9.5 below water. Going to keep SPS - I think the issue is how far they are from the lights. In looking at the AI website there is a major PAR difference between a height of 12 vs 24 so I’m thinking I just need to adjust the lights down or add more Rock.

 

[jda]

That helps.

You will likely end up with one per foot if you have a lot of Acropora. Then, as colonies come, a T5 hybrid to help with shadowing. This is a pretty common progression for point-source/puck LEDs and SPS/Acropora tanks. I would plan this into your budget.

These are not super high output lights.

 

[blstravler]

So I need to be higher then these numbers?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

So I need to be higher then these numbers?

Those par numbers are all channels at 100% and over air, no water in the tank. What par meter did you use because some of them require a 1.3 conversion for leds. I have 2 hydra 52 HD’s 16” over my 50 gallon and get 550 par 6” below the surface and 350 on the sand.

 

[blstravler]

Those par numbers are all channels at 100% and over air, no water in the tank. What par meter did you use because some of them require a 1.3 conversion for leds. I have 2 hydra 52 HD’s 16” over my 50 gallon and get 550 par 6” below the surface and 350 on the sand.

I used a Apogee Model MQ-500 - do you think I need to do the conversion?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I used a Apogee Model MQ-500 - do you think I need to do the conversion?

I believe you do, but I’m not quite sure. I have the 510 which does not require it.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I’ve got two 26hd over my 24in wide tank, 9in over water, 18in to bottom, getting 150 to 200 on the bottom. I’m at 84w on each hydra. My corals are up around 6in from bottom and get 350 par.

That’s plenty of PAR for all sps. Don’t get why people knock the hydras...Guess if it ain’t Radion it ain’t ish to those that don’t own them?

 

[LARedstickreefer]

That helps.

You will likely end up with one per foot if you have a lot of Acropora. Then, as colonies come, a T5 hybrid to help with shadowing. This is a pretty common progression for point-source/puck LEDs and SPS/Acropora tanks. I would plan this into your budget.

These are not super high output lights.

They aren’t low power either. Plenty of people have great success without t5. My old LFS guy uses leds and whips the pants off the tanks here. Wish he’d pipe up!

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I’ve got two 26hd over my 24in wide tank, 9in over water, 18in to bottom, getting 150 to 200 on the bottom. I’m at 84w on each hydra. My corals are up around 6in from bottom and get 350 par.

That’s plenty of PAR for all sps. Don’t get why people knock the hydras...Guess if it ain’t Radion it ain’t ish to those that don’t own them?

I’m kind of surprised your par is that low. I have 2 52hds 16” above the water on my 24” cube at 100 watts each producing 450-550 par at the top of my rocks and 350 on the sand.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

I’m kind of surprised your par is that low. I have 2 52hds 16” above the water on my 24” cube at 100 watts each producing 450-550 par at the top of my rocks and 350 on the sand.

I’ve got my hydras parallel to front of tank instead of perpendicular, so I have less light combination. I need to swap to perpendicular, like you have.

You are another example that leds, hydras especially, can do the job just fine. I wish this myth of leds needing t5 would end.

 

[chefjpaul]

I run a modified Saxby schedule, I bumped the channels up, especially white. (It's to blue and he subs T5's)

I have x1 hydra 52
X2 Primes
On my 36x22x22 tank.
Roughly 420+ par on top during peaks.
Could definitely push them to higher par though. And get ok coverage.

You definitely should get decent coverage with x2 hydras 52 on that tank.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I’ve got my hydras parallel to front of tank instead of perpendicular, so I have less light combination. I need to swap to perpendicular, like you have.

You are another example that leds, hydras especially, can do the job just fine. I wish this myth of leds needing t5 would end.

I don’t get the led hate either. As long as there are enough fixtures and they are mounted high enough to properly blend the spectrum they are just as effective as any another light source.

 

[blstravler]

Thank you for all the replies! I did get a different PAR meter today - apogee SQ-520 goes USB into your PC. The readings where similar but a little higher in spots. I lowered the lights down about 3.5 inches and now at the top of my rock I get 340 so the lights are about 17in from the top of my rock. Approx 6 inches below the water line I’m at 420 and 550 at 3inches so that’s a big improvement in my mind. My rock is low in the tank so 340 at the top of the rock makes sense to me. The bottom of the tank is now 250 in the middle and 190 to the corners. I do have my lights running side to side. I’ve always been under the impression that I would do a 3rd 52 and at some point and then run them front to back.

I’ve read/heard a lot of people supplement with T5 but in my mind I would just do a 3rd 52. My LFS is running nothing but LED (Hydra’s and Radions) and they a pretty large frag growing operation and their growth is amazing to me at least.

Do any of the LED manufacturers give details on longevity of their units?

Thank you again for all of the feedback!

 

[blstravler]

I’m kind of surprised your par is that low. I have 2 52hds 16” above the water on my 24” cube at 100 watts each producing 450-550 par at the top of my rocks and 350 on the sand.

Amazing tank to say the least - gives me great inspiration!

 

[jda]

Most people choose to upgrade before the units break down due to "old age" or "end of life." Of course, every manufacturer has a few units that quit just out of warranty - they all seem to be equal here and each has a section of haters because of it. I would just ignore most of these and it seems that EcoTech/AI (same company), Kessil, RB, etc. all are pretty good in the end.

The T5 suggestions come with colonies not frags - I mean like real colonies and not teen moms with a few branches (like 6-24 inches where you cannot count the branches anymore). Most people who don't get this do not yet have colonies shading each other... or they have a massive amount of panels over their tanks. It does not matter with frags since frags don't cast much of a shadow. In my 8' tank, I would need two rows of panels front and back to eliminate the shadows from my colonies... so probably 12-16 Hydra 52s. While this can work, a few T5s look pretty good when you see that bill come due.

This colony is larger than a single Hydra 52. What do you do when you get here?


Here is was a few months ago... these things will grow fast when you get good at this, so have a plan:


You can still have corals below this with enough coverage and no shadowing.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

Most people choose to upgrade before the units break down due to "old age" or "end of life." Of course, every manufacturer has a few units that quit just out of warranty - they all seem to be equal here and each has a section of haters because of it. I would just ignore most of these and it seems that EcoTech/AI (same company), Kessil, RB, etc. all are pretty good in the end.

The T5 suggestions come with colonies not frags - I mean like real colonies and not teen moms with a few branches (like 6-24 inches where you cannot count the branches anymore). Most people who don't get this do not yet have colonies shading each other... or they have a massive amount of panels over their tanks. It does not matter with frags since frags don't cast much of a shadow. In my 8' tank, I would need two rows of panels front and back to eliminate the shadows from my colonies... so probably 12-16 Hydra 52s. While this can work, a few T5s look pretty good when you see that bill come due.

This colony is larger than a single Hydra 52. What do you do when you get here?


Here is was a few months ago... these things will grow fast when you get good at this, so have a plan:


You can still have corals below this with enough coverage and no shadowing.

You share the love man! THATS what you do.

 

[blstravler]

[/QUOTE]

Most people choose to upgrade before the units break down due to "old age" or "end of life." Of course, every manufacturer has a few units that quit just out of warranty - they all seem to be equal here and each has a section of haters because of it. I would just ignore most of these and it seems that EcoTech/AI (same company), Kessil, RB, etc. all are pretty good in the end.

The T5 suggestions come with colonies not frags - I mean like real colonies and not teen moms with a few branches (like 6-24 inches where you cannot count the branches anymore). Most people who don't get this do not yet have colonies shading each other... or they have a massive amount of panels over their tanks. It does not matter with frags since frags don't cast much of a shadow. In my 8' tank, I would need two rows of panels front and back to eliminate the shadows from my colonies... so probably 12-16 Hydra 52s. While this can work, a few T5s look pretty good when you see that bill come due.

This colony is larger than a single Hydra 52. What do you do when you get here?


Here is was a few months ago... these things will grow fast when you get good at this, so have a plan:


You can still have corals below this with enough coverage and no shadowing.

Okay I get it - you’re not a fan of LED. I also used to run MH and they are great. At the same time I’m only trying to learn more about something new that I am trying. Also I’ve been “pretty good” at this in the past. So I fully understand I may need need more light at some point and I’ll get more light if needed. Maybe you could give me insight into your use of LED’s?