New to Quarantining fish

[Rich Kapoor]

First time setting up a quarantine tank (already setup actually 5 days ago)... and I have a few questions. But first a little background. I am new to aquarium hobby.. and I have a 75 gallon display tank with 30 gallon sump that houses corals and 4 fish (2 clowns, 1 foxface, 1 blue hippo tang). This tank was setup in august... with 1 month cycle period (using DrFosterSmith bacteria)...and then fish/corals were introduced slowly in September. My display tank is healthy and clean...with no issues of algae and other nuisances. The 4 fish came from another reefer who was leaving the hobby...and were kept in a 20 gallon long (with 20 gallon sump) for a month before I got them in my tank. No copper dosing or any medication was used on those 4 fish. They are currently healthy and doing well in my tank.

Now.. this holiday weekend, I purchased 3 small tangs (yellow tang, sailfin tang and a juvenile orange shoulder tang) from a fish store in Chicago (Xzotic Aquatic World near Ohare)...and I observed those fish before purchasing them. They all look healthy and swimming well. According to fish store, they dose copper in all their fish holding tanks...and I checked their salinity (1.018) on the Milwaukee digital refractometer.

I setup a 20 gallon (tall) as a quarantine...with water from my existing display tank...small heater...a cheapy tetra 20 whisper pump (removed the carbon and used sponge dipped in drfostersmith bacteria)...some cheap light... and pvc plumbing pieces. I forgot to match the salinity of the fish store and the fish were directly introduced into the quarantine tank (after a quick 30 min acclimation). The fish seemed happy and were swimming about. I was not careful about my feeding...and dropped frozen food (once a day) for 2 days straight.. and a small piece of nori. Tried to remove uneaten food...but missed quite a bit on the first 2 days. Checked my ammonia the 3rd day and it was over 1.0 (API test kit). I did a 2 gallon water change thinking that would be enough.. but then tested ammonia on 5th day and it was over 2.0... I immediately did a 10 gallon water change (using water from my display tank) and lowered the ammonia to 1.0 or so.

Now the questions:

1. Should I strive to keep the ammonia around 0.5 or less? At what level does ammonia become a threat to fish life?
2. I am keeping the temperature of the tank around 75 deg. Is that ok? I am using a cheapy heater...so it does fluctuate a lot (72-78). I don't wanna use a good heater cause then it becomes unusable for any other needs (cause of copper)
3. I have not started any cupramine dosing yet...but i have it ready. The 3 fish haven't shown any signs of disease. Should i start anyways? or wait?
4. Using display tank water (ammonia and nitrite are close to 0) is acceptable? or should i use new water when doing water changes?
5. Are 3 small tangs too much for a 20 gallon quarantine? I will try not to feed them alot..and remove uneaten food and fish waste more diligently.
6. I have seachem cupramine. can i buy api copper test kit? or should i buy seachem test only?
7. My QT salinity is 1.025... should i keep it that way? or change it?

any other suggestions/feedback for me?

 

[Humblefish]

1. Should I strive to keep the ammonia around 0.5 or less? At what level does ammonia become a threat to fish life?

Ammonia needs to be kept at ZERO at all times. Are you dosing any meds while testing for ammonia? Copper, for example, will cause false positives with most ammonia test kits.

2. I am keeping the temperature of the tank around 75 deg. Is that ok? I am using a cheapy heater...so it does fluctuate a lot (72-78). I don't wanna use a good heater cause then it becomes unusable for any other needs (cause of copper)

75 is fine, but the fluctuation is a problem. All marine life like stable parameters. Temp in QT should perfectly match DT before you transfer livestock over.

3. I have not started any cupramine dosing yet...but i have it ready. The 3 fish haven't shown any signs of disease. Should i start anyways? or wait?

For tangs I strongly recommend prophylactic treatment, as they are very susceptible to external parasites (i.e. ich, velvet). I also recommend using Prazipro to deworm either before or after copper treatment.

4. Using display tank water (ammonia and nitrite are close to 0) is acceptable? or should i use new water when doing water changes?

DT water is fine to both fill and do WCs on your QT, so long as you are confident DT is disease-free.

5. Are 3 small tangs too much for a 20 gallon quarantine? I will try not to feed them alot..and remove uneaten food and fish waste more diligently.

It should be fine, but it seems like ammonia is becoming an issue for you. Do you have any biological filtration going in QT to help break down the ammonia?

6. I have seachem cupramine. can i buy api copper test kit? or should i buy seachem test only?

Seachem or Salifert copper test kit only. API is difficult to read with Cupramine.

7. My QT salinity is 1.025... should i keep it that way? or change it?

If that matches your DT salinity, keep it @ 1.025. You want QT & DT salinity to match perfectly before transferring the fish over, so you don't have to do any acclimation procedure.

 

[melypr1985]

First time setting up a quarantine tank (already setup actually 5 days ago)... and I have a few questions. But first a little background. I am new to aquarium hobby.. and I have a 75 gallon display tank with 30 gallon sump that houses corals and 4 fish (2 clowns, 1 foxface, 1 blue hippo tang). This tank was setup in august... with 1 month cycle period (using DrFosterSmith bacteria)...and then fish/corals were introduced slowly in September. My display tank is healthy and clean...with no issues of algae and other nuisances. The 4 fish came from another reefer who was leaving the hobby...and were kept in a 20 gallon long (with 20 gallon sump) for a month before I got them in my tank. No copper dosing or any medication was used on those 4 fish. They are currently healthy and doing well in my tank.

Now.. this holiday weekend, I purchased 3 small tangs (yellow tang, sailfin tang and a juvenile orange shoulder tang) from a fish store in Chicago (Xzotic Aquatic World near Ohare)...and I observed those fish before purchasing them. They all look healthy and swimming well. According to fish store, they dose copper in all their fish holding tanks...and I checked their salinity (1.018) on the Milwaukee digital refractometer.

I setup a 20 gallon (tall) as a quarantine...with water from my existing display tank...small heater...a cheapy tetra 20 whisper pump (removed the carbon and used sponge dipped in drfostersmith bacteria)...some cheap light... and pvc plumbing pieces. I forgot to match the salinity of the fish store and the fish were directly introduced into the quarantine tank (after a quick 30 min acclimation). The fish seemed happy and were swimming about. I was not careful about my feeding...and dropped frozen food (once a day) for 2 days straight.. and a small piece of nori. Tried to remove uneaten food...but missed quite a bit on the first 2 days. Checked my ammonia the 3rd day and it was over 1.0 (API test kit). I did a 2 gallon water change thinking that would be enough.. but then tested ammonia on 5th day and it was over 2.0... I immediately did a 10 gallon water change (using water from my display tank) and lowered the ammonia to 1.0 or so.

Now the questions:

1. Should I strive to keep the ammonia around 0.5 or less? At what level does ammonia become a threat to fish life?
2. I am keeping the temperature of the tank around 75 deg. Is that ok? I am using a cheapy heater...so it does fluctuate a lot (72-78). I don't wanna use a good heater cause then it becomes unusable for any other needs (cause of copper)
3. I have not started any cupramine dosing yet...but i have it ready. The 3 fish haven't shown any signs of disease. Should i start anyways? or wait?
4. Using display tank water (ammonia and nitrite are close to 0) is acceptable? or should i use new water when doing water changes?
5. Are 3 small tangs too much for a 20 gallon quarantine? I will try not to feed them alot..and remove uneaten food and fish waste more diligently.
6. I have seachem cupramine. can i buy api copper test kit? or should i buy seachem test only?
7. My QT salinity is 1.025... should i keep it that way? or change it?

any other suggestions/feedback for me?

1. Strive to keep ammonia at 0 all the time. Even if you need to do 80% water changes until the tank cycles. Make sure you get an ammonia badge because your ammonia test kit wont work in the presence of copper. Also dont use any ammonia detoxifiers with the copper as it turns it toxic.
2. You need a big enough heater to keep the temp from fluctuating that much. It can cause more stress in the new fish.
3. I would go ahead and treat them for ich since tangs are notorious for carrying it.
4. Dont continue to use your DT water for water changes unless you know that it is ich free. If you didn't qt and treat your other fish before introduction, then you can't really be sure of that.
5. Probably not, what kind of filter do you have on the tank? You'll want one oversized for the tank.
6. use the seachem test
7. Keep your salinity right where it is. it's fine where it is.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Great minds think alike.

I also recommend the OP read this article on How to QT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

If “seeded” bio-media is used in, say, a HOB or canister filter, then ammonia should not be a problem in QT. I personally use an Aquaclear HOB power filter, utilizing the “foam insert” i.e. sponge it comes with. I “seed” the sponge (or multiples) in a high flow area of my DT’s sump (or you can put it behind your rocks) for at least one month prior to QT. This one month allows time for enough beneficial bacteria to transfer onto the sponge, so that it may be used as biological filtration once placed back in the power filter and used in QT. If you can't wait a month, you can instantly seed your sponge by pouring some Bio-Spira, Seachem Stability or Dr Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria over it just prior to use. I've done it both ways, and have never seen any ammonia in my QTs since employing this method.

 

[Rich Kapoor]

Ammonia needs to be kept at ZERO at all times. Are you dosing any meds while testing for ammonia? Copper, for example, will cause false positives with most ammonia test kits.

No I have not started dosing any meds yet. I was waiting to see if any fish showed any signs of disease, but I think I will begin this weekend. I will get the ammonia badge and keep an eye on it.


75 is fine, but the fluctuation is a problem. All marine life like stable parameters. Temp in QT should perfectly match DT before you transfer livestock over.

Main tank is around 77-78 temp....and I will match it for sure a week a two before transfering fish.


For tangs I strongly recommend prophylactic treatment, as they are very susceptible to external parasites (i.e. ich, velvet). I also recommend using Prazipro to deworm either before or after copper treatment.

I will look into prazipro also...


DT water is fine to both fill and do WCs on your QT, so long as you are confident DT is disease-free.

Only reason I am using DT water is bacteria already in the water column...and plus DT gets more frequent water changes (though i have done 30 gallon in the last 10 days)

It should be fine, but it seems like ammonia is becoming an issue for you. Do you have any biological filtration going in QT to help break down the ammonia?

I am using a piece of sponge in a Tetra Whisper 20 hob. I know it is small, but thats what i had on hand. I dipped the sponge (2 of them) in DrFosterSmith Nitrifying bacteria.. but that bacteria bottle is over 3 months old. Could the bacteria have died? Also.. I have some live rock in my main tank sump... i could put that in the QT to control ammonia/nitrite... but I've read that will cause another set of problems.

Seachem or Salifert copper test kit only. API is difficult to read with Cupramine.

I will get the seachem kit ordered immediately.

If that matches your DT salinity, keep it @ 1.025. You want QT & DT salinity to match perfectly before transferring the fish over, so you don't have to do any acclimation procedure.

Thank you

 

[cmcoker]

Good job on setting up a quarantine!

But, have you researched the needs of these Tangs?

I think 4 tangs in a 75g may lead to problems, some of the tangs you listed should be in a much larger aquarium.

Not trying to be Tang police, just wanted to bring this up before you have aggression issues.

Welcome and Happy reefing!

 

[Rich Kapoor]

1. Strive to keep ammonia at 0 all the time. Even if you need to do 80% water changes until the tank cycles. Make sure you get an ammonia badge because your ammonia test kit wont work in the presence of copper. Also dont use any ammonia detoxifiers with the copper as it turns it toxic.
2. You need a big enough heater to keep the temp from fluctuating that much. It can cause more stress in the new fish.
3. I would go ahead and treat them for ich since tangs are notorious for carrying it.
4. Dont continue to use your DT water for water changes unless you know that it is ich free. If you didn't qt and treat your other fish before introduction, then you can't really be sure of that.
5. Probably not, what kind of filter do you have on the tank? You'll want one oversized for the tank.
6. use the seachem test
7. Keep your salinity right where it is. it's fine where it is.

Thank you.
I am not 100% sure my Display Tank is ich free...but basically the existing fish all came from the same tank...all healthy... and were kept in a separate 20 gallon tank with 20 gallon sump for 1 month (no other fish or corals) before moving into my tank...And even now they are all healthy and show no signs of disease.

I will get the ammonia badge this evening...

1 more question... if I am going to be doing frequent water changes... can i change my salt to a more cheaper brand? Right now i am using Red Sea Coral Pro.. but changing 10 gallon water every 1-2 days will add costs. Can I go with something cheaper now? or stick to what i have?

 

[melypr1985]

Thank you.
I am not 100% sure my Display Tank is ich free...but basically the existing fish all came from the same tank...all healthy... and were kept in a separate 20 gallon tank with 20 gallon sump for 1 month (no other fish or corals) before moving into my tank...And even now they are all healthy and show no signs of disease.

I will get the ammonia badge this evening...

1 more question... if I am going to be doing frequent water changes... can i change my salt to a more cheaper brand? Right now i am using Red Sea Coral Pro.. but changing 10 gallon water every 1-2 days will add costs. Can I go with something cheaper now? or stick to what i have?

Yes, for the QT you can use a cheaper salt for sure. IO would be fine for this purpose.

 

[Rich Kapoor]

Good job on setting up a quarantine!

But, have you researched the needs of these Tangs?

I think 4 tangs in a 75g may lead to problems, some of the tangs you listed should be in a much larger aquarium.

Not trying to be Tang police, just wanted to bring this up before you have aggression issues.

Welcome and Happy reefing!

I have read up on tangs... and know they kinda need a larger system.... I am trying to keep all small tangs... so it'll be atleast 1-2 years before they outgrow my tank... then i can always trade them away to someone with a larger system .... though i know how hard it is to remove fish from an established tank... lol

plus my existing tank alot of rockwork... so small fish have ALOT of places to hide...for now...

I've read that blue hippo tangs are aggressive... but i think my dory is a sissy... will hide as soon as i walk close to the tank.. lol... even while feeding...

 

[Humblefish]

But, have you researched the needs of these Tangs?

I think 4 tangs in a 75g may lead to problems, some of the tangs you listed should be in a much larger aquarium.

Not trying to be Tang police, just wanted to bring this up before you have aggression issues.

I agree with this. In time you will have to choose which tangs you wish to keep due to aggression issues, or you'll have to upgrade to a bigger tank. But I've found this is something you only learn by doing, as seeing the battle scars will let you know when this time is and will make more of an impact on your psyche than any amount of research. There are some things in this hobby we all just have to learn the hard way.

 

[Rich Kapoor]

So you guys think I shouldn't add any more tangs?

Cause I was actually thinking of getting me a powder blue tang and a blonde naso tang (both small) in a couple months.

 

[melypr1985]

So you guys think I shouldn't add any more tangs?

Cause I was actually thinking of getting me a powder blue tang and a blonde naso tang (both small) in a couple months.

Definitely not- IMO

 

[cmcoker]

So you guys think I shouldn't add any more tangs?

Cause I was actually thinking of getting me a powder blue tang and a blonde naso tang (both small) in a couple months.

No, I wouldn't do it.

I will say I do not have any tangs, but I only upgraded to a 4ft 120g (from a 55g) the beginning of the year. I will be adding a bristletooth tang as my last fish, I will only be adding the one small tang because I believe my tank too small to house more than one and I have already gone through trying to remove a fish from an established reef and don't wish to do it again. I have also seen my friend go through watching a purple tang beat up on every other tang in his 6ft length by 2ft width tank.

Tangs also need a good amount of swimming room so while lots of rock is good to hide, it also takes away from swimming space.

As I said earlier, I really don't want to beat you down about it. I just want you to have a successful tank, with minimal headache [emoji3]

 

[Humblefish]

Honestly, you'll be lucky if the 4 tangs you already have last together more than a year in just a 75 gal. These fish grow pretty fast. And a PBT is one of the most aggressive tangs there is. I couldn't keep the peace between a PBT and Blonde Naso in a 150 gal. She'd beat the crap out of him and the naso, being the gentle giant they are, would just take it. I finally made the difficult decision to rehome the naso because I couldn't stand to see the little pockmarks all over his skin from the PBT's barb.

Another thing you need to know about tangs is they are pooping machines. I mean, it's a lot. And what this means is eventually all that poop will turn into detritus which leads to high nitrates. I mention this because I noticed you have a lot of sticks in your tank and those require close to 0 nitrates. You are setting yourself up for an epic fail if you overload the fish bioload with SPS. The only people I know who can get away with it are those using zeovit.

 

[Rich Kapoor]

So I just checked the ammonia again when I got home.. and its around 1.5 on the API test... I am setting up to do another 10 gallon water change now... however.. Im thinking I wanna add some live rock (from my sump) to stabilize the tank first... maybe for a couple weeks before I start dosing cupramine... It seems the hob tetra whisper 20 filter isnt doing much...

thoughts on adding the live rock for a couple weeks? and then removing it just before starting cupramine...


on a side question... regarding so many tangs... im dropping the idea of powder blue tang... but id still like a blonde naso...and willing to give up the orange shoulder... so basically keeping the sailfin, dory, yellow and blonde naso when i get one... thoughts?

 

[melypr1985]

So I just checked the ammonia again when I got home.. and its around 1.5 on the API test... I am setting up to do another 10 gallon water change now... however.. Im thinking I wanna add some live rock (from my sump) to stabilize the tank first... maybe for a couple weeks before I start dosing cupramine... It seems the hob tetra whisper 20 filter isnt doing much...

thoughts on adding the live rock for a couple weeks? and then removing it just before starting cupramine...


on a side question... regarding so many tangs... im dropping the idea of powder blue tang... but id still like a blonde naso...and willing to give up the orange shoulder... so basically keeping the sailfin, dory, yellow and blonde naso when i get one... thoughts?

Can you get ahold of any bacteria in a bottle products? This would help establish your biofilter. Soak your sponge from the filter in the bacteria for an hour then add it to the tank. continue doing large water changes until the cycle is established.

For what it's worth, I have a 75 gallon tank with two tangs - a purple and a kole. I dont like the idea of more than that in a 75. That's just my opinion.

 

[Rich Kapoor]

Can you get ahold of any bacteria in a bottle products? This would help establish your biofilter. Soak your sponge from the filter in the bacteria for an hour then add it to the tank. continue doing large water changes until the cycle is established.

For what it's worth, I have a 75 gallon tank with two tangs - a purple and a kole. I dont like the idea of more than that in a 75. That's just my opinion.

I soaked the sponge in drfostersmith nitrifying bacteria... but only soaked it for a minute...but i will leave it overnight now..and then put it in the hob in the morning.. that should hopefully set the bacteria in the sponge...

 

[cmcoker]

So I just checked the ammonia again when I got home.. and its around 1.5 on the API test... I am setting up to do another 10 gallon water change now... however.. Im thinking I wanna add some live rock (from my sump) to stabilize the tank first... maybe for a couple weeks before I start dosing cupramine... It seems the hob tetra whisper 20 filter isnt doing much...

thoughts on adding the live rock for a couple weeks? and then removing it just before starting cupramine...


on a side question... regarding so many tangs... im dropping the idea of powder blue tang... but id still like a blonde naso...and willing to give up the orange shoulder... so basically keeping the sailfin, dory, yellow and blonde naso when i get one... thoughts?

Agree with Melpyr.

I wouldn't use the rock, you want the bacteria to form in the tank. Removing the rock before adding copper would remove part of your filter, and the rock would have to be sterilized since it is then "contaminated"

Regarding the tangs, I feel it's still too many. That said, If you are going to change the list it would probably be better to do it now and add them all together. Once you have the 3 in the tank, I don't see adding the 4th one going well. The last addition may get beat up on by all 3 existing tangs. If you do wait to add the last one, definitely use an acclimation box.. The reason I am adding a tang as my last fish, is they are reported to not tolerate new fish additions.

 

[melypr1985]

I soaked the sponge in drfostersmith nitrifying bacteria... but only soaked it for a minute...but i will leave it overnight now..and then put it in the hob in the morning.. that should hopefully set the bacteria in the sponge...

You'd probably be better off getting another sponge and soaking that in the bacteria. You dont want to remove the little bio filter you have overnight. Make sure to do a LARGE water change to dilute that ammonia before going through with your plan.

 

[Rich Kapoor]

Thank you all for your guidance and help... I did another 10 gallon water change last night and checked ammonia this morning. . It is at 0.5 now...I also soaked a sponge I nitrifying bacteria overnight and put that in the hob filter ...

I will check ammonia again this evening to see if there is any change. Fish are looking healthy..eating well... swimming about