Newbie tank build????'s lagoon type I believe

[CableGuy86]

I have a 40 gallon breeder tank, 305 fluval canister that's puts out 260 gph, and national geographic deluxe led30B lighting.

I purchased 60lbs of live sand and that's about it so far.

Lots of ??????'s.....

1a) how many and what kind of cheaper powerheads should I get? I would like to keep some coral and shrooms eventually. I was thinking two pushing 1300gph each???? OR

1b) I was wondering if a wave powerhead system would be better if so what's a fairly easy to use and cheap system?

2) Tank is 36x18. is 60 lbs of sand enough or not enough?

3) how many pounds of live rock do I need? 40lbs or should I go higher or lower? keep in mind I have NO sump/refugium.

4) I don't have one but later when the money is back I would like to add a sump/refugium. Can I do that once it's established? For now is it possible to build a refugium that hangs on the side or would that cause issues and not work well? Thinking that would be good for all the Copepods etc? Any help will be appreciated

 

[jasonandsarah]

I have a 40 gallon breeder tank, 305 fluval canister that's puts out 260 gph, and national geographic deluxe led30B lighting.

I purchased 60lbs of live sand and that's about it so far.

Lots of ??????'s.....

1a) how many and what kind of cheaper powerheads should I get? I would like to keep some coral and shrooms eventually. I was thinking two pushing 1300gph each???? OR

1b) I was wondering if a wave powerhead system would be better if so what's a fairly easy to use and cheap system?

2) Tank is 36x18. is 60 lbs of sand enough or not enough?

3) how many pounds of live rock do I need? 40lbs or should I go higher or lower? keep in mind I have NO sump/refugium.

4) I don't have one but later when the money is back I would like to add a sump/refugium. Can I do that once it's established? For now is it possible to build a refugium that hangs on the side or would that cause issues and not work well? Thinking that would be good for all the Copepods etc? Any help will be appreciated

1a- refer to 1b 

1b- yes a wave maker would be better, you can get 2 Rw4's or 1 Rw8 for a decent price. http://m.ebay.com/itm/Jebao-2015-WP...werhead-Pump-/221262324096?varId=520493257796

2- 60lbs of sand is plenty most likely but this all depends on what your trying to accomplish? Deep sand bed? Just want sand on the bottom of your tank?(I think you probably have enough for a deep sandbed)

3- liverock is another one that's mostly preference. Imo with a 40B you could use anywhere from 30-50lbs of rock. This will be you main filtration especially with no sump. (Take your time and build your rock scape the way you want it the first time)

4- Adding a sump/refugium isn't very expensive so I say add it now while it's easier to do. You could pick up a cheap 20g or 30g tank and build a sump/refugium. Also eliminate the need for that canister filter witch most people don't use on reef tanks.
You should also consider drilling your tank. Makes adding the sump easier and safer. More then likely there's a reefer in your area that has the stuff and knows how to do it.
Lastly can I ask why you chose those lights?

 

[CableGuy86]

I actually purchased it all used. I got a deal on the setup so I didn't even research the lights to much just took his word. Are the bad for what I'm trying to do? And really no canister filter?

The tank is tempered so I doubt U can drill it but I was thinking just add sand water and rocks till I can afford to put a sump/refugium?

I like the wave system. How do I set it up one on each side the tank pointing at one another?

Taking it slow with this tank! Trying anyway.

 

[jasonandsarah]

I actually purchased it all used. I got a deal on the setup so I didn't even research the lights to much just took his word. Are the bad for what I'm trying to do? And really no canister filter?

The tank is tempered so I doubt U can drill it but I was thinking just add sand water and rocks till I can afford to put a sump/refugium?

I like the wave system. How do I set it up one on each side the tank pointing at one another?

Taking it slow with this tank! Trying anyway.

I wouldn't say the lights are terrible but they're not very good for a reef tank. Those lights are 90% white leds and are made for freshwater.
Canister filters aren't the best for saltwater either imo. Not that they can't be used because they can. They just require frequent cleaning and most people that do use them only place Carbon or Gfo in them.
Normally tanks aren't tempered on all panes. But don't take my word for that, research it first. If you can't/don't want to drill you can just use an external overflow. I've had my tank on an external overflow for a few years.
If it was me I'd add the sump now because it's not very expensive to do. You can find a used one for next to nothing or build one out of a 20g-30g tank. I have one sitting in my shed, to bad you weren't local! Lol
Yes the jebao's would probably be best set up opposite each other and set to anti sync. All though lots of people are starting to set there pumps up side by side towards the top and pulsing to create a Gyre of sorts.
Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank! So it's good to take it slow, learn some things and ask tons of questions. There's tons of different ways to run a successful reef tank and my opinions and ways I do things are just some of them. There's Tons of great reefers on here and listening to them when they give you advice will take you a long ways towards success! But... Always be sure to double check what your told before making major changes. At least until you know who's who on here.
Looking through old threads can be an invaluable resource for sure...

 

[CableGuy86]

Thanks, I much appreciate all the help. I'm not chancing the drill but I will be buying an hob overflow if I can get one cheap for the sump. Not in a rush to add anything such as fish. I've watched a bunch of vids on how to make chambers in a 20gallon tank/sump. Is that really necessary? I'm also ordering a finnex hob refugium w/light and those jebao's you suggested 2day.

As far as the jebao's I've seen them on same side to make a wage and opposite. U think its better opposite?

 

[iyad_nadi]

for overflow I recommend this one 3 years with no problems very safe
and regarding the sump very easy to DIY with some 6 or 8mm glass from old window or you can buy new glass its very cheap for wave maker I recommend jebo I brought mine from aliexpress for US $139 with free shipping to Qatar very good deal

finally as other recommended take your time in your build

 

[jasonandsarah]

Baffles in the sump aren't something you HAVE to do but it is something I would say you should do. Havin the baffles allows you to separate stuff and also make a bubble tral.
I wouldn't order a HOB refugium if I was you. I would put that money into building your sump and accounting enough space for a refugium in there. Could you fit a 30g under your stand?
I personally think where you place you pumps is all up to you and will also depend on what kind of rock work you have and what kind of corals you plan on keeping? I personally always kept my jebao's on opposite sides to try and get a random chaotic flow.
For an overflow they all work well as long as you match the flow of the overflow and your return pump (after you calculate head loss).. If anything you want the overflow to be able to withstand a little more gph then your return pump.

 

[CableGuy86]

Still on the wall about the sump. I want one but everything I read says hob overflow is just a mistake waiting to happen. Tank is already filled and ready for for the jebao's. As for that would it be a bad idea to add some normal powerheads to the mix? What should my gph be at?

As far as a hob refugium I picked up a finnex w/light for 50. I figured it was cheap and had great reviews. I like the ideas of fresh pods flowing into the tank not through a pump. Still researching though.

This was what I was looking at and its sold as a kit. What ya think?

 

[jasonandsarah]

I have a used pf800 if your interested? Also have that duck bill for the return nozzle I would throw in free.
I've been using a hob overflow for a few years with zero problems. Most of the people that complain about them don't match the together good enough. The if the pump is to powerful for the overflow it will be loud and really annoying. If the pump isn't strong enough then you can get air bubbles and lose the syphon and lots of water on the floor.
All these things are easily avoidable if you research and know how to set it up.

That looks like a great pump for that overflow. I would also suggest the (40$ on DrFS) Hydor L40 (795 gph) with 2'-3' of head pressure it works perfect with the Pf800 and mine was still running like new after almost 2 years.

 

[CableGuy86]

Def interested if I can save a few$$. PayPal? Also u may need to put " would also suggest the (40$ on DrFS) Hydor L40 (795 gph) with 2'-3' of head pressure" Laymans terms lol

 

[Harold Green]

Wow. I think most of us have very different ideas on what to suggest. That's because many different things can work and work well. The drilled tank is the best and most troublefree option and that's why it was suggested. If you have room you can set the sump at the same level as the tank, water surfaces at the same height. This allows you to pump water one way and have a siphon move water in the other direction. You still have to keep bubbles out of the return tube or you'll end up with water everywhere. Same as a hob overflow to a below the tank sump. I like the Jabeo wave makers but if you size it correctly and set the wave timing for your tank you probably will be able to get nice wave action with only one unit. Throw away the canister unless you empty it out and only add a biological medium and prefilter the water before it enters the filter. I'm not familiar with your lights but for reef tanks I find the blue to white led's should be at least 2 to 1 but I'm sure there are others who do just fine with something else.

 

[CableGuy86]

Well like I said I would love to drill it but I am not willing to risk it. Eventually I will upsize I'm sure and I'll buy the correct tank or bring it somewhere to be drilled.

Is a hob worth it to have a sump bc if not I won't even try it. Never had one so far but I would like this tank to run much smoother than my 14 gallon biocube. That little tank has been a pain/learning experience.

I plan on designing my sump so that being said I plan on putting the pump on the higher side so it won't flood the tank just burn up if the water from the intake stops. While also putting in different chambers to keep the water on the higher side of the input if that makes sense?

 

[Harold Green]

Easier to control the pump with a float switch so you don't have to worry about it going dry. I like having a separate sump tank. It gives you a place for the skimmer, heater, filter socks, etc. and gets them out of the display tank. A refusium can be a utility tank or a work of art that can be on display. It's a good place for filter feeders as well as pods. If you design your own refusium remember it needs a slow flow and not the full flow of your pump.

 

[cu455]

Set up your HOB refugium and cainster filter and enjoy your tank. Keep it simple at first, I see alot of people overwhelm themselves setting up a more complex system and they just give up. You already have the fuge and cainster already have and it will work fine. You can always add an overflow and sump to the tank later on. 40 pounds of rock is plenty. If you use a cainister filter you can have less rock since the filter will hold your biological filtration material. Rocks have other benefits such as providing grazing areas for your fish/inverts.

 

[jasonandsarah]

Def interested if I can save a few$$. PayPal? Also u may need to put " would also suggest the (40$ on DrFS) Hydor L40 (795 gph) with 2'-3' of head pressure" Laymans terms lol

Oh sorry lol, it's a couple extra dollar then I thought but still cheaper then the other pump. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21413

 

[jasonandsarah]

Def interested if I can save a few$$. PayPal? Also u may need to put " would also suggest the (40$ on DrFS) Hydor L40 (795 gph) with 2'-3' of head pressure" Laymans terms lol

I have to clean it up and I'll post some pics for you. It doesn't have the foam thing that goes on the drain but I believe I still have a Hoffer gurgle buster(silencer) for it. Witch is better and what you'd probably want to use with it.

 

[jasonandsarah]

Wow. I think most of us have very different ideas on what to suggest. That's because many different things can work and work well. The drilled tank is the best and most troublefree option and that's why it was suggested. If you have room you can set the sump at the same level as the tank, water surfaces at the same height. This allows you to pump water one way and have a siphon move water in the other direction. You still have to keep bubbles out of the return tube or you'll end up with water everywhere. Same as a hob overflow to a below the tank sump. I like the Jabeo wave makers but if you size it correctly and set the wave timing for your tank you probably will be able to get nice wave action with only one unit. Throw away the canister unless you empty it out and only add a biological medium and prefilter the water before it enters the filter. I'm not familiar with your lights but for reef tanks I find the blue to white led's should be at least 2 to 1 but I'm sure there are others who do just fine with something else.

Lol I'm confused Harold Green? From what I just read I think we gave very similar advise?

 

[Bensadork]

I agree that tank setups come in all shapes and sizes. I have a 46g bowfront running a canister filter and hob skimmer. I've had zero issues yet, but as was said before the canister filter does require a bit of maintenance. As long as you had the patience and motivation that setup will work jut fine. The only thing I have in my canister is carbon and some foam pads. Anything else such as bio balls will probably cause more harm than good in the long run as far as nitrates go. I will also agree that if you are planning on growing any kinds of corals you might want to bump up that lighting. I have a current USA orbit marine led setup 36 inches long. It was budget friendly at about 160 online and my corals are loving life. The most valuable tool in this hobby is most definitely google and reef2reef. As long as you do the proper research and have patience, you will have no problems setting up a beautiful tank. Pardon me if I am wrong but I did not see anything about a protein skimmer for your tank. In a reef tank is probably the most important piece of filtration you can get. Don't skimp on quality with a skimmer. With proper lighting, live rock, and live sand some tanks don't use any kind of filtration other than a protein skimmer. With that being said, there's a million different ways to set up a successful tank.

 

[CableGuy86]

I def appreciate all the help I think I will wait on the sump it's more of a hassle right now but i will slowly collect the pieces and add it later.

As far as a hob protein skimmer I may pick one up and wait for the sump. I think I will use my small biocube as a coral setup and QT tank and just keep a few shrooms and a anemone in the big tank for now. So almost a FOWLER but not completely.

I plan on doing a 5 gallon water change weekly and I'll rinse that canister out each time. Any ideas on easy not expensive RODI systems? I have to keep containers on hand as of now from my lfs.

 

[jasonandsarah]

I def appreciate all the help I think I will wait on the sump it's more of a hassle right now but i will slowly collect the pieces and add it later.

As far as a hob protein skimmer I may pick one up and wait for the sump. I think I will use my small biocube as a coral setup and QT tank and just keep a few shrooms and a anemone in the big tank for now. So almost a FOWLER but not completely.

I plan on doing a 5 gallon water change weekly and I'll rinse that canister out each time. Any ideas on easy not expensive RODI systems? I have to keep containers on hand as of now from my lfs.

Ebay has some decent RO/DI for cheaper. Anenomes require an established tank and lots of light.