Nifurpirinol & Copper

[Christoph]

Does he still have that "dusting" on him that you mentioned before?

No, i cant see any. In my opinion the skin looks clean. This "dusting" disappeared quickly after addition of metronidazole (or before kanaplex).

 

[ngoodermuth]

Hm, I'm curious to hear humble's opinion on this one as well...

 

[Humblefish]

The bump on the head... does it protrude outward? (It looks protruded to me from the pic.) Or does it look sunken, like something is eating away at his scales/skin?

Do you happen to have a microscope?

 

[Christoph]

The bump on the head... does it protrude outward? (It looks protruded to me from the pic.) Or does it look sunken, like something is eating away at his scales/skin?

Do you happen to have a microscope?

Hi Humblefish, good to have you on that one!

The bump is protruded outwards approx 3-5 mm, also the fish is bothered by it and tries to rub it off on the PVC tubes. Im having a fairly good microscope around...

What would you suggest?

Best,
Christoph

 

[Humblefish]

Hi Humblefish, good to have you on that one!

The bump is protruded outwards approx 3-5 mm, also the fish is bothered by it and tries to rub it off on the PVC tubes. Im having a fairly good microscope around...

What would you suggest?

Sounds like a growth of some kind or an abscess. Not something we normally encounter on here.

Do you think you could take a small culture of it and scope ID (post pics)? So, we can at least establish whether it's bacterial, viral (or something else) in nature.

 

[Christoph]

Sounds like a growth of some kind or an abscess. Not something we normally encounter on here.

Do you think you could take a small culture of it and scope ID (post pics)? So, we can at least establish whether it's bacterial, viral (or something else) in nature.

Uff, i actually dont think i can manage to get the sample. Or at leat i would feel very inconfident doing/trying so. The fish is very hectic, and i would like to avoid stressing him out much more.

What do you think regarding the breathing rate from the video?

I know, its totally guessing into the blue, but would you dose Kanaplex again?

Best,
Christoph

 

[Humblefish]

What do you think regarding the breathing rate from the video?

I know, its totally guessing into the blue, but would you dose Kanaplex again?

Since the fish showed improvement with Kanaplex, I would dose that again in conjunction with Metroplex. But for 10-14 continuous days this time around. Treating for only 6 days might have knocked the infection back, but didn't allow enough time for the fish's natural immune system to eliminate it 100%.

The heavy breathing I can only assume is distress from the infection, assuming no parasites/worms are present inside the gills.

 

[Christoph]

Since the fish showed improvement with Kanaplex, I would dose that again in conjunction with Metroplex. But for 10-14 continuous days this time around. Treating for only 6 days might have knocked the infection back, but didn't allow enough time for the fish's natural immune system to eliminate it 100%.

The heavy breathing I can only assume is distress from the infection, assuming no parasites/worms are present inside the gills.

I was a bit frighthened also by the statements from SeaChem, that exposure with Kanamycin that exceeds 6 days can lead to kidney problems.

 

[Humblefish]

I was a bit frighthened also by the statements from SeaChem, that exposure with Kanamycin that exceeds 6 days can lead to kidney problems.

Purely anecdotal, but I've had fish live for 10-15 years that were exposed to kanamycin on multiple occasions. I used to do ich/disease management and was always battling secondary infections.

Some of the large angels succumbed to Lymphocystis (growing over the gills & mouth), and a necropsy showed Lympho even growing over some of the internal organs. (Which is probably what killed them. )

But the kidneys & liver always looked perfect.

 

[Christoph]

And would you say that adding the Kanaplex to food is equally effective as dosing it in the water column?
Its a 200l QT, so i would need quite large amounts for dosing into water.

Unfortunately Focus is not available here, do you know any alternative that could be used to bind the medication to food?

Best,
Christoph

 

[Humblefish]

And would you say that adding the Kanaplex to food is equally effective as dosing it in the water column?
Its a 200l QT, so i would need quite large amounts for dosing into water.

Unfortunately Focus is not available here, do you know any alternative that could be used to bind the medication to food?

Kanamycin is readily absorbed by the fish's skin, so that makes dosing the water column the treatment of choice for external infections. While food soaking is optimal for internal infections, the medication has to work its way into the bloodstream - so I would expect that to be less effective for your particular problem.

I believe @SoreninKL has used Omega 3 fish oil to bind medications to food. See this post: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/maroons.295883/#post-3620695

 

[ngoodermuth]

And would you say that adding the Kanaplex to food is equally effective as dosing it in the water column?
Its a 200l QT, so i would need quite large amounts for dosing into water.

Unfortunately Focus is not available here, do you know any alternative that could be used to bind the medication to food?

Best,
Christoph

Adding kanaplex to food is helpful treating internal infections. It *may* be absorbed enough into the fishes blood stream to help external infections as well. In this case, it would probably be best to dose the water...

There are recipes for preparing a gelatin-based medicated food. I tried the one on Hikari 's website but my fish wouldn't touch it. Not even the wrasses.

 

[melypr1985]

At a guess I would agree with abscess for the bump on the head. I agree with doing kanaplex again with metroplex for the full 10-14 days.

I don't know if anybody else mentioned it, but the hippo tang also seems to have the beginnings of HLLE. I'm not sure if the abscess is related to the HLLE at all or not.

 

[SoreninKL]

Hi Christoph,

Humblefish is correct I did bind powdered medication with fish oil to pellet food and that works well if your fish is eating well and fast.
I tried the same as ngoodermuth, using gel type food but unfortunalty with the same results. after this experience I did try to feed my rabbit fish some gel type food, of course without meds, but not even this guy was willing to eat it and this guy usually eats everthing and a lot of it, I guess that speaks for the taste of this gel type food.

recently I spoke to a guy who is in his 60' now and was in the ornamental fish industry since his boyhood. They used and use medications over the counter, grind them with mortar and pestle, dissolve the fine powder in water (RO), soak fish food in this mixture and then, to make it tasty, coat it with liquid garlic. His preference is to use freeze dried brine shrimp as the brine shrimps are bone dry and do absorb the medicated water well. On the other hand this is mostly done for internal infections and external should be treated with medicated water.

I had a maroon clowfish with a mild fin rot which turned out to be a little nightmare and it took me 3 weeks to stop the fin rot. Which indicates and confirms that some bacteria are nasty and or the antibiotics are just working slow.


cheers

Soren

 

[Christoph]

At a guess I would agree with abscess for the bump on the head. I agree with doing kanaplex again with metroplex for the full 10-14 days.

I don't know if anybody else mentioned it, but the hippo tang also seems to have the beginnings of HLLE. I'm not sure if the abscess is related to the HLLE at all or not.

Thanks everyone! The fish developed the HLLE while in cupramine, but at least it stopped or is getting even a bit better. He is now in Kanaplex (in addition to the metronidazole) since yesterday. Today morning appetite seems a bit decreased.

Also in my hands, kanaplex always turns the water turbid within ~10 hours after addition? Can you confirm that? I was getting my Kanaplex from a Vendor on Amazon, hopping its the original product.

Best,
Christoph

 

[Christoph]

Hi Christoph,

Humblefish is correct I did bind powdered medication with fish oil to pellet food and that works well if your fish is eating well and fast.
I tried the same as ngoodermuth, using gel type food but unfortunalty with the same results. after this experience I did try to feed my rabbit fish some gel type food, of course without meds, but not even this guy was willing to eat it and this guy usually eats everthing and a lot of it, I guess that speaks for the taste of this gel type food.

recently I spoke to a guy who is in his 60' now and was in the ornamental fish industry since his boyhood. They used and use medications over the counter, grind them with mortar and pestle, dissolve the fine powder in water (RO), soak fish food in this mixture and then, to make it tasty, coat it with liquid garlic. His preference is to use freeze dried brine shrimp as the brine shrimps are bone dry and do absorb the medicated water well. On the other hand this is mostly done for internal infections and external should be treated with medicated water.

I had a maroon clowfish with a mild fin rot which turned out to be a little nightmare and it took me 3 weeks to stop the fin rot. Which indicates and confirms that some bacteria are nasty and or the antibiotics are just working slow.


cheers

Soren

Good Morning Soren,

thanks a lot for the info, i will try it next time i need to feed medication.

Best,
Christoph

 

[ngoodermuth]

Also in my hands, kanaplex always turns the water turbid within ~10 hours after addition? Can you confirm that? I was getting my Kanaplex from a Vendor on Amazon, hopping its the original product.

Could be a bacterial bloom, very common when mixing antibiotics. As long as you have sufficient aeration it's not dangerous. You can do a waterchange if needed, just make sure you medicate the new water going in before it hits the tank.

 

[Christoph]

Hey everyone,

bad news, its now day 6 into Metronidazole and day 2 into Kanaplex. Bacterial bloom (cloudiness) in the water seems to have disappeared.

But what has reappeared is the "dust covering" of the fish... just showed up overnight and is very pronounced today. Also the bump on the head didnt improve but unfortunately got worse.

The fish is still eating, but is most of the time just sitting on the powerhead (but not swimming into the flow). Velvet seems so unlikely, since the fish has now been in therapeutic copper twice already during this already very long QT situation... i also have the feeling that the more medication i throw at the fish the more problematic it gets :-(

Please help! What would be the next logical step here?

I can make another vid, so you can see the status quo.

Thanks and have a good weekend!
Christoph