Nitrate believer

[Ewilson]

How New of a tank is to "new" to start dosing nitrates? I ask because my nitrates are always 0 (salifert) while phos is .19 or slightly higher. I would rather dose what I need to make corals happy instead of over feed or overstock.

 

[Ocelaris]

My phosphates and nitrates show 0 all of the time. I check them with Red Sea kit. Every sps coral I try dies with the exception of a mystic sunset and plating montipora. What would you suggest I do to try and correct that?

Read that thread to see if that situation fits the bill. There are a lot of variables and nitrogen is not a miracle cure, but in my case it helped resolve my slow growth and lack of color. I didn't have any die though, they were for lack of a better word stunted.

 

[Ocelaris]

How New of a tank is to "new" to start dosing nitrates? I ask because my nitrates are always 0 (salifert) while phos is .19 or slightly higher. I would rather dose what I need to make corals happy instead of over feed or overstock.

That's my preference, I add food for the fish as I see necessary (usually too much) and then add nitrogen to help the corals. I think as long as you don't have an algae issue to start, as long as you go slow you can start as soon as your nutrient inputs and outputs are stable. Again, I'm not the expert, just a random testimonial, that thread has a lot of details on specifics.

 

[Ewilson]

That's my preference, I add food for the fish as I see necessary (usually too much) and then add nitrogen to help the corals. I think as long as you don't have an algae issue to start, as long as you go slow you can start as soon as your nutrient inputs and outputs are stable. Again, I'm not the expert, just a random testimonial, that thread has a lot of details on specifics.

Most people's tanks in this thread are medium to heavy stocked. The few corals I have seem to not be doing so well including my Jedi mind trick monti that has all but lost it bright green color. I dose 2 part and keep my big 3 stable and I'm trying to lower phosphates with gfo as I believe that has played a big role in slowing of growth and coloration

 

[Flippers4pups]

I used this calculator to dose potassium nitrate to get to 5-10ppm with alkalinity at 9-10 dkh. Once there it seems to take forever to drop in my system. So I don't dose much and it's ever so often.

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

 

[TbyZ]

↑
TbyZ said:
I have some questions about this nitrate thing.

1. Why dose nitrates instead of manipulating the filter system to let it rise naturally?

2. Why doesn't the NSW I collect ever show any nitrates when tested, EVER?

3. Why after many years of (alledged) successful reef keeping, has very low, or zero nitrates become untrendy?

Diesel said:
1) Cause it's easier to dose vs the alter the equipment every time, when skimmer goes nuts it's a indication you dosed too much.
And as always you need to dose No3 everyday to know if you need to dose.

2) It means it does still have nitrates in there but just undetectable, and the ocean moves over a coral reef about a few million gallons of water per hour, you can't compare that with our glass boxes.

3) it's proven that corals with the fake lighting and syntactic salt, and all the over skimming, even with nutrients reducing reactors we grow corals better if the nutrients level is higher than in the ocean.
Many tanks are starving cause they won't get these millions of gallons of water flushed over them every hour as on the reef.


1, 2 & 3

Quote;

“I think most reefers have plenty of nitrate or other nitrogen sources, and can just back off on the export methods if it does get low. For example, less organic carbon dosing, less macroalgae, smaller ATS, etc.”

“there many sources of nitrogen in reef tanks (e.g. ammonia and all of the amino acids)”

“0 ppm does not mean none. It means different things to different test kit users. There are not many kits that can accurately test NSW levels of nitrate of 0.1 ppm.”

Randy Holmes Farley


Yes, there are always traces of nitrogen in the water, if you feed fish.

Too much & the sps turn brown.

My NO3 tests zero with a Redsea & PO4 with salifert. Yet I get film algae on the glass which shows there’s still traces in the water for the zooxanthella.

I could say that a Duncan coral I had thrived with nitrate at 60 ppm & PO4 at 3ppm (I didn’t realise it was that high until I changed test kits).

But, it was ordinary,,, until I elevated the alkalinity to 400ppm & calcium to 650ppm.

SPS on the other hand typically live on the open ocean side of an atoll and the open ocean water is very low in nutrients.
Reef create their own nutrients

 

[TbyZ]

Since starting dosing nitrates a month and a half ago my corals have perked up and colored up spectacularly.

I have kept alkalinity around 10.

There's the reason your corals have perked up.

At an alaklinity of 10 dKH - (3.6meq/l - 180ppm) the traces of nitrogen in your aquarium, from feeding the tank, are not sufficient.

I bet that if you were to maintain alkalinity at a level closer to natural sea levels (6.7dKH - 2.5meq/l - 125ppm) your corals would look just as spectacular without dosing nitrate.

 

[Ocelaris]

So a little update since I first posted, I've been maintaining nitrate levels around 2-4ppm for the past few months, and coral growth has been fantastic. However algae has crept up, but in the meantime I've upgraded Skimmers and lighting as well. Also I went on vacation for a week, and as you imagine the tank got more algae as a result. Phosphates have been at near zero for quite a while while, and I stopped gfo and carbon. That course of events led to more algae on the rocks, so I've stopped nitrate dosing until it's under control. It's almost clear, but will probably give it another week and keep up the good husbandry practices. Unfortunately the coral color is going as well, and presumably growth, so if color keeps receding I'll start nitrates again as I was very pleased with the colors and growth.

Summary: it's a double edged sword maximizing growth with elevated nutrients (and alkalinity to go with it).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree it is a double edged sword.

It is unfortunate that we often need to boost inorganic nutrients to excessive levels in order to replace the absence of natural organic foods (such as microorganisms) for corals that would otherwise be supplying the needed N and P.

 

[TbyZ]

I agree it is a double edged sword.

It is unfortunate that we often need to boost inorganic nutrients to excessive levels in order to replace the absence of natural organic foods (such as microorganisms) for corals that would otherwise be supplying the needed N and P.

Would using NSW for water changes accomplish this?

Or surely you can buy these microorganisms in a little blue bottle?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Would using NSW for water changes accomplish this?

Or surely you can buy these microorganisms in a little blue bottle?

Only if you change large amounts daily. Lots of companies sell foods for corals, but I'm not sure how well they mimic reality of a coral in the ocean.

 

[TbyZ]

Only if you change large amounts daily. Lots of companies sell foods for corals, but I'm not sure how well they mimic reality of a coral in the ocean.

What about dosing amino acids & urea instead of inorganic nitrate?

DISSOLVED ORGANIC MATTER (DOM)
Dissolved organic matter contains various elements: Dissolved organic nitrogen, DON, which includes amino acids and urea and dissolved organic carbon, DOC, which includes carbohydrates. All of these molecules are taken up by corals. Observation on natural coral reefs show the coral’s urea uptake is much greater than nitrate, a possible adaptation to the urea producing fish found on the reef.. Scientists also found that urea and amino acids are more actively taken up during the day and may be integral to building the organic matrix that aids the formation of aragonite crystals, increasing the density and strength of the coral skeleton. Other evidence of uptake is observed in reef and marine tanks with noticed polyp expansion after feeding plankton or plankton supplements containing dissolved organics.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/richgro-4kg-urea_p2982917

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Many people have had success dosing amino acids in low nutrient systems, which is most likely working as a source of N.