Nitrate Issues

[mell312]

I adopted a tank from a friend 11 days ago. The FOWLR 36g tank had been up for about 10 years. It had a canister filter that was only cleaned about every 6 months and water changes done every 4 months. The filter has since been replaced.

Nitrates are through the roof. I've used two different tests and each show the max of their range (200ppm and 160ppm). I've done 3 5g water changes in the 11 days I've had the tank and no detectable drop in the nitrates yet. Can someone recommend a more aggressive water change schedule that will help get these nitrates down?

 

[twilliard]

Aggressive changes may cause undesirable results to coral.
The best thing to do is what you are doing. Small frequent water changes.

 

[RMS18]

Have you tired another test kit? Running carbon?
Was your friend also getting those high results when he had the tank? When the tank was moved was it broken down? Deep sand bed disturbed?

 

[mell312]

No corals in the tank. Just live rock and 2 fish (percula clownfish and a brown clown goby).

While the tests I've used are not the Red Sea tests highly recommended here, the high numbers from both combined with the lack of water changes and lack of cleaning the filter make me trust the nitrates are super high.

 

[Lenny_S]

My suggestion would be mix up a whole batch of saltwater, enough to change 100% or close to it and an extra few gallons for rinsing. Take some of the existing water out and put the live rock in one container and the fish in another to house temporarily. Vacuum the sand bed while you remove the remaining water. Then refill the tank about 1/2 way with the newly made saltwater. Rinse each piece of live rock with some of the extra new saltwater you just made as you put it back in the tank. Top off the tank with the remaining new saltwater. Acclimate the fish to the tank just like you would bringing them home from the fish store. Leave the filter alone for at least 2 weeks, but then clean that out again. That should reduce your nitrate significantly and keep your biological filtration in tact.
10%-15% water changes aren't going to cut it. If you think about it, that would only dilute the nitrate by that same percentage and it isn't helping get rid of all the old detritus that is jacking up the nitrate to begin with.

 

[mell312]

Have you tired another test kit? Running carbon?
Was your friend also getting those high results when he had the tank? When the tank was moved was it broken down? Deep sand bed disturbed?

I have new (less than a week) carbon in the filter. Friend was not testing (the test kit he provided me expired in 2007 so I pitched them and haven't used them and used others I had). Tank was broken down for he move. Sand bed was shallow (1/2 inch or less in some spots). We removed top layer of sand as it was full of detritus and have added sand. Nitrates tested same before and after sand change.

 

[RMS18]

I have new (less than a week) carbon in the filter. Friend was not testing (the test kit he provided me expired in 2007 so I pitched them and haven't used them and used others I had). Tank was broken down for he move. Sand bed was shallow (1/2 inch or less in some spots). We removed top layer of sand as it was full of detritus and have added sand. Nitrates tested same before and after sand change.

I'd do a major water change then, not having corals makes this easier. Try 50% then every 3 days another 20% for a total of 4 changes then test again. Can I have some of your nitrates? I can't seem to keep then in my tank!

 

[miyags]

Are you using rodi or distilled water when making new saltwater?

 

[twilliard]

I'd do a major water change then, not having corals makes this easier. Try 50% then every 3 days another 20% for a total of 4 changes then test again. Can I have some of your nitrates? I can't seem to keep then in my tank!

Potassium nitrate will solve that issue

Having no coral opens a big window of choices. All good info above!

 

[mell312]

Are you using rodi or distilled water when making new saltwater?

Purchasing saltwater from the LFS. $$$ Am planning to make my own with LFS RODI once things settle with the tank as I already have an extra heater and a dedicated bucket and just need to purchase salt and an extra power head. But I'd need to buy quadruple that (heaters buckets power heads) right now to make 20-30 at a time and that just doesn't seem worthwhile when I will only need to make 5g or so at a time once we are in a better spot. Working on convincing DH on an RODI system for home.

 

[mell312]

I'd do a major water change then, not having corals makes this easier. Try 50% then every 3 days another 20% for a total of 4 changes then test again. Can I have some of your nitrates? I can't seem to keep then in my tank!

If I could ship you all my nitrates I would!!!

 

[SantaMonicaHelp]

I hope this bit of info might help:

Nutrient Export

What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.

So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients comes from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.

Then, the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on the rocks consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks from when they were new. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crews, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

So whenever you have algae or cyano "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients out of your tank compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then after a year, there is a problem).

So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals

~SF

 

[Reefing Madness]

If its just a FOWLR, then do 50% water changes everyday until you see the numbers come down. the fish can handle that, corals oon the other hand don't much care for it.

 

[mell312]

Finally was able to do the first big water change today. Changed about 19 gallons. Fish weren't bothered a bit. And as seen below I sent my husband up a ladder with the water so we could siphon it back in quickly and not disturb the sand. Worked like a charm.

Nitrates before were...well who knows. Using two different tests they measured at the top of the range (160 and 200) so no telling how high they actually were. Now they are measuring between 60 and 70. MUCH better.

Phosphates measured at .75 and now are at .2. I've also added Phosguard to my filter to hopefully further reduce the phosphates and hinder the HGA growth.

Will do my next water change Tuesday or maybe Wednesday. Thinking 10-15g. What do y'all think?