Nitrate & Phosphate Control

[ODSlim]

Hi all, so after reading numerous topics on nitrates and phosphates and how we all need a little for optimal coloration and growth, I decided to take the plunge and raise my nitrates and phosphate. A little history on my sis dominant tank, ,so about a couple month ago I was battling GHA so here comes the GFO reactor, NOPOX, weeekly water changes and intermittent dosing of brightwells phosphate E and actual prior to that I had one dose of Fluconezol, I was trying everything...But now that all GHA is gone I let my reef takes its course, and I was so happy that the annoying GHA was gone. So with that said I was cautious of what i was putting in or feeding my fish and coral. I left the carbon the and GFO on, normal skimming and water changes. I was so relieved that I was able just to do my 10-15% water changes and feed fish, and just dosed 2 part, minimal! So a month goes by, within that month I purchase a few sps frags and couple euphyillias. At this point frags are doing well growth was kinda slow, all my LPS are doing fine, but I started to notice that some of my SPS coloration was going pale which brought me to research and all that was coming up was nitrates and phosphates. For me back in the day all those were non existent, so apparently we all need a little of that N and P. So being that water was some what too clean, with my normal doings on my tank, with my test reading via the Hanna ULR phosphate checker was constant at 0.03 along with the nitrate at 0 or 1 using the Red Sea test kit.

So after reading threads and articles, I decided to go that natural route to raise phosphates and nitrates. I fed more, GFO reactor is now offline, I tone down my dc skimmer and cutback my cheating to a baseball size. So after a week and half, I started noticing that I had to swipe the glass cleaner more often, so thinking something must be happening. So I test, phosphate are now at 0.05 but my nitrate were still the same at 0 or 1. So I decided to dose nitrates and went with brightwells Neonitro, after reading the directions multiple times and researching online on others experiences, I took it slow for the first 3 doses which was dosed every other day within the week, I didn’t want to dose everyday, I wasn’t to say I think dosed 2 days in a row. Anyways, after a week, I test nitrates with the same 0-1 results but my phosphates went down to 0.03 from 0.05. But today, I also noticed one of my small 3/4 frag that i was trying to safe from STN completely died on me, and also noticed one of my other bigger frags started to RTN at the base and one of my smaller torches isn’t doing so well. I also notice that my SPS polyps don’t extend so much anymore. In the morning, I’m going to do a 15-20% water change, given, that tank was used to receiving a weekly water change but trying to dirty the water a little, I skipped a week.

I don’t think I’m moving to fast on dosing nitrates, or is phosphates the culprit of coral death? I’m just worried this might affect more coral or even fish... At this point, I didn’t dose any nitrates or aminos. Any info, advice or help is appreciated.

 

[ODSlim]

I forgot to ask, do I ramp up my skimmer to normal operating speed? I did notice during dosing the Brightwells neonitro, my skimmers collection cup was getting fuller and the skimate was a lot darker, this was the reason why i decided to tone the skimmer to reduce skimming while still being on

 

[Coral Euphoria]

I don't have the answer for you sorry, but I do have a few comments. Most of this is my personal biased opinion (esp. on phosphate) and I'm probably in the minority.

The thing that stands out to me in your post is that everything was fine before you started making changes. That alone tells me that you should go back to how they were. But just think about it, before you had pale colors and slow growth with the old way and now they are dying with the new way. Slow growth and pale colors to me only requires fine tuning, like simply stepping up the feedings or increasing the bioload with more fish (I'm a believer in heavy import, heavy export). Personally I would not have made all those changes. Well maybe I would have, but I would have changed one thing, waited one month, and changed another if I didn't see any difference. What was the time frame that you implemented all these changes? It's possible that the changes itself are killing your corals and not the actual numbers.

One thing that I have learned is that I don't trust any phosphate test kits anymore. In my opinion they are not accurate. In general I think that they underestimate the phosphate. I just run RowaPhos and change it every month religiously. My tank is fine (SPS) and maybe growth is average or maybe a tad bit below average, but I'm happy with my colors. Some may think that my colors are on the lighter side, but I do like them that way. You can see my corals in my YT channel and website (also I just posted a growth video). I agree with the statement that corals need phosphate but I personally have lost corals when they got about 0.10ppm (but I don't even trust the test kits now so I question that number). I know you are below that, but like I said I don't trust the the test kits regardless. I just really question how much phosphate people say we need. I'm pretty old school though, when people believed that phosphate was bad and should be near NSW levels (0). Regardless if I'm right or wrong and I know I'm in the minority, but your tank was really doing okay before you made the changes (esp. removing GFO).

By the way, my tanks are at about 0-1 nitrate as well. I don't bother testing anymore either. I try to feed heavy. My tank is "clean" by today's standards.

But anyway this is all anecdotal and going to be overshadowed by many posts of people who say you need higher phosphate and nitrate than what I say. lol And some of these people will have nice tanks so idk what to tell you.

But how old is your tank is one question I have? It sounds new. That could be a factor too. Also remember that SPS usually show their approval/disapproval weeks after a change is made, so this is why it helps to change one thing at a time and also good to write down when you made those changes.

Good luck

 

[ODSlim]

Thanks for the insight @Coral Euphoria, yes my tank was doing fine, I just decided to implement nitrate dosing to enhance color. I am a subscriber to your YT channel and your corals are amazing especially for a “clean water” tank. So if you don’t test, what’s your indication that you have over elevated nutrients? As far as change, I feel if I dint make a lot of drastic changes. No gfo and skimmer turned down (but still exports). I did start to feed heavy almost to a point it’s extra heavy, I have a total of 13 fish which include 2 tangs other blennies, wrasses and pair with of clowns. Since the extra feeding and naturally lower export means, I do now see a patch of cyano which doesn’t bother me some, yet. And I believe that’s all caused by zero to low nutrients, especially when started to dose nitrates, phosphate decreased by 0.02. Bring it down to 0.03 per the Hanna checker. And I know the test kits aren’t perfect or there’s a +/- factor in. So I wanna say dosing the nitrates May have bottom out my phos. I’ll be doing another test. If anything I also have neophos on deck, and probably dose that as well.

 

[Coral Euphoria]

I stopped testing nitrate because ever since 2009 I never have nitrates. I could maybe sometimes convince myself that there is some slight color in the test tube, so maybe not straight 0, but really it's pretty clear.

For phosphate I just change out the rowaphos every month. I'm guessing this practice keeps my phosphate below 0.03 ppm. I'm mainly basing that on when I used to test phosphates. I do get a haze of green algae on the glass every 2-3 days.

 

[ScottB]

While I cannot explain the chemistry, it is my experience that raising nitrates will reduce PO4 every time.

Also in my experience, undetectable PO4 leads to bad things. Eventually, if not sooner.

Most important to me is this: captive corals can and do adjust to mild, gradual changes in their environment. To a point of course. But a volatile environment (chemistry, temp, light cycle, etc) stresses them out. They are doing what they can to deal with the change. FINALLY, we notice what is happening and (over) react. More stress.

Lastly, system age is a big deal for SPS IME. I probably could manage my well aged 140G display system visually for the most part. (Yet I still track everything )

My "newer" 240G frag system consumes 80% of my attention because it is new. New = volatility. I am constantly working to keep the parameters consistent.

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

Hi all, so after reading numerous topics on nitrates and phosphates and how we all need a little for optimal coloration and growth, I decided to take the plunge and raise my nitrates and phosphate. A little history on my sis dominant tank, ,so about a couple month ago I was battling GHA so here comes the GFO reactor, NOPOX, weeekly water changes and intermittent dosing of brightwells phosphate E and actual prior to that I had one dose of Fluconezol, I was trying everything...But now that all GHA is gone I let my reef takes its course, and I was so happy that the annoying GHA was gone. So with that said I was cautious of what i was putting in or feeding my fish and coral. I left the carbon the and GFO on, normal skimming and water changes. I was so relieved that I was able just to do my 10-15% water changes and feed fish, and just dosed 2 part, minimal! So a month goes by, within that month I purchase a few sps frags and couple euphyillias. At this point frags are doing well growth was kinda slow, all my LPS are doing fine, but I started to notice that some of my SPS coloration was going pale which brought me to research and all that was coming up was nitrates and phosphates. For me back in the day all those were non existent, so apparently we all need a little of that N and P. So being that water was some what too clean, with my normal doings on my tank, with my test reading via the Hanna ULR phosphate checker was constant at 0.03 along with the nitrate at 0 or 1 using the Red Sea test kit.

So after reading threads and articles, I decided to go that natural route to raise phosphates and nitrates. I fed more, GFO reactor is now offline, I tone down my dc skimmer and cutback my cheating to a baseball size. So after a week and half, I started noticing that I had to swipe the glass cleaner more often, so thinking something must be happening. So I test, phosphate are now at 0.05 but my nitrate were still the same at 0 or 1. So I decided to dose nitrates and went with brightwells Neonitro, after reading the directions multiple times and researching online on others experiences, I took it slow for the first 3 doses which was dosed every other day within the week, I didn’t want to dose everyday, I wasn’t to say I think dosed 2 days in a row. Anyways, after a week, I test nitrates with the same 0-1 results but my phosphates went down to 0.03 from 0.05. But today, I also noticed one of my small 3/4 frag that i was trying to safe from STN completely died on me, and also noticed one of my other bigger frags started to RTN at the base and one of my smaller torches isn’t doing so well. I also notice that my SPS polyps don’t extend so much anymore. In the morning, I’m going to do a 15-20% water change, given, that tank was used to receiving a weekly water change but trying to dirty the water a little, I skipped a week.

I don’t think I’m moving to fast on dosing nitrates, or is phosphates the culprit of coral death? I’m just worried this might affect more coral or even fish... At this point, I didn’t dose any nitrates or aminos. Any info, advice or help is appreciated.

I'm going through the same, as in trying to raise nitrates and phosphates as I lost my sps due to 0 phosphates, I'm now dosing phosphates but this has lead to lowering nitrates so now looking to dose this. I only have a small 24 gal tank with no skimmer or sump and only 3 fish, i think heavy feeding is out with such a low amount of fish, and don't think they could poop faster than the corals could eat it. So I'm looking to dose potassium nitrate on top of already dosing monopotassium phosphate (last 2 months) I just can't seen to find much info on how fast nitrates can be raised. Have you had luck with your tank. I went from a flourishing tank of 2 years, to a starving tank.
So this

To this

Now I'm back to this, and the sps that died and had been cut out, the remaining polyps I missed,have started to grow again.

 

[ODSlim]

I'm going through the same, as in trying to raise nitrates and phosphates as I lost my sps due to 0 phosphates, I'm now dosing phosphates but this has lead to lowering nitrates so now looking to dose this. I only have a small 24 gal tank with no skimmer or sump and only 3 fish, i think heavy feeding is out with such a low amount of fish, and don't think they could poop faster than the corals could eat it. So I'm looking to dose potassium nitrate on top of already dosing monopotassium phosphate (last 2 months) I just can't seen to find much info on how fast nitrates can be raised. Have you had luck with your tank. I went from a flourishing tank of 2 years, to a starving tank.
So this

To this

Now I'm back to this, and the sps that died and had been cut out, the remaining polyps I missed,have started to grow again.

My nitrates seem to hold steady finally at 7ppm (as im still trying to raise it a little more by a couple . What I did was cut down on my cheato, the refugium light to 9 hours instead of 12 hours. I also slowed down my skimmer being a DC pump which enabled of a dryer skim). As I have researched numerous threads from a viariety of forums and you tube videos, I dosed as instructed per the brightwell neonitro bottle and tested after a 24hrs. Its typical to dose one which will brings down the other. So with that said, I also feed a little heavier, as I was having the same issue to where iwas dosing nitrates my phos would drop and that where coral suffered even more. Iv probably lost a total of 5-6 frags and they werent cheap. But to get this whole chemistry balance, you HAVE to test everyday till you hit your mark OR keep a close eye on your corals and health. I paid alot of attention to it staring into there world. some of corals where it had dead spots, I chopped and hope to save it in which has worked so far and getting growth again.

So to recap on your question. There isnt a definite answer on how much a system can consume as everyone tank is ALWAYS different. SO dose per instructions, and test test test.

 

[Nicholas Dushynsky]

My nitrates seem to hold steady finally at 7ppm (as im still trying to raise it a little more by a couple . What I did was cut down on my cheato, the refugium light to 9 hours instead of 12 hours. I also slowed down my skimmer being a DC pump which enabled of a dryer skim). As I have researched numerous threads from a viariety of forums and you tube videos, I dosed as instructed per the brightwell neonitro bottle and tested after a 24hrs. Its typical to dose one which will brings down the other. So with that said, I also feed a little heavier, as I was having the same issue to where iwas dosing nitrates my phos would drop and that where coral suffered even more. Iv probably lost a total of 5-6 frags and they werent cheap. But to get this whole chemistry balance, you HAVE to test everyday till you hit your mark OR keep a close eye on your corals and health. I paid alot of attention to it staring into there world. some of corals where it had dead spots, I chopped and hope to save it in which has worked so far and getting growth again.

So to recap on your question. There isnt a definite answer on how much a system can consume as everyone tank is ALWAYS different. SO dose per instructions, and test test test.

Thanks,
I'm going to start dosing nitrates tomorrow now with a diy mixture of 15g of potassium nitrate to 500ml of rodi water. A dose of 1ml of this solution should raise my nitrate in my 90litre system by 0.2ppm of nitrate, as per this web page I was pointed towards.

I will test it to confirm, but a guess, I would say it would get consumed quickly. I'm going to start slow and dose this amount daily, so as not to lower phosphates too quickly by trying to reach a higher number to fast. I don't even know how fast nitrates can be raised, but having been in this hobby for this long, I know nothing good happens fast, I don't want to rush it and kill things or cause a massive algae outbreak.

The reason I'm not going to start today though, is becasue my heater packed up yesterday and stuck on, I came home to a tank that was 88f not 78f and some very stressed corals. It was fine when I left for work so I dont know how long it had been like it. But with 2 clip on fans and some ice packs in the tank I managed to get it back down to 79 over the course of 2.5 hours. Thankfully all the fish are ok, the snails, pistol shrimp and crabs are also, on a plus side the corals were opening back up as the temp was going down, and I still have polyp extension on the little bits of digitata. So fingers crossed that didn't do too much damage, the tank would have got to that temp in the 9 hrs I was at work, hopefully it shouldn't have been at that for too long and the corals are going to be ok.