Nitrate questions

[Oneforone]

Hello, I have some questions about controlling nitrates in my aquarium. Maybe I am missing an important step or something. Tank Parameters will be at the bottom of the post.

First my tank is a 32g Biocube with an Icecap rs-15 sump. So with water displacement from rocks and sump added I am probably around 33-34g total water volume. The tank has been setup since November 5th 2017, I seen to always have had issues with high nitrates (50-100+) since the tank has been setup.

I set the tank up to cycle in Nov 7th 2017, with 10lbs of live rock, 15 lbs of dry rock, and 20lb bag of live sand from the LFS. Mid December I added 2 clownfish. Roughly 2 weeks later I added a yellow watchmen Goby and pistol shrimp. Feb 2018 I added a red scooter blenny, and the last fish I added was a pink-streaked wrasse about 3 weeks after the blenny. Throughout the months I have added snails and hermits. I have one emerald crab that has been around since month 3 or so as well. I have lost maybe a dozen or so blue leg hermits throughout the tanks life, So I haven't added any recently. I also have random zoa's, and a few lps corals in the tank.

I added the sump about 5 months into the tank being setup with intentions to grow chaeto. The chaeto would double in size every week with a CFL bulb for light in the sump, but the nitrates always remained high. I ended up ditching the Chaeto after 2 months and added a Reef Octopus 110sss skimmer in hopes that would maybe help remove junk from the water and help keep nitrates down. The skimmer definitely pulls some gunk out of the water to this day, but the nitrates still remain high.

Around June or July 2018 I added 2 maxspect bio blocks to my sump for more surface area for bacteria to grow which seemed to do very little over time.

Around the 1 year mark of the tanks life I also tried dosing nopox and followed the instructions on the bottle manually dosing every morning before work. A white/clear slime began developing all over my tank though even after backing off the dosing for a week so I gave up on dosing that after a month and a half. During this time I ran my skimmer very wet and would have to empty the cup every day or it would overflow the following day. One thing I wasn't really testing for during this time was my Po4, which when I bought my Hanna ultra low range checker it came up 0. I bought some flourish phosphorus and added that per the instructions, everyday for a few weeks I would check the po4 level and it would be 0 again, eventually I caught up with whatever was consuming the po4 and it now sits at 0.028 and goes down 0.002-3 a day if that. I'eve backed off checking it daily since its stabilized though.

3 weeks ago today I bought a Korallin s-1502 biodenitrator and set that up, almost all the reviews online say that within the first week the output of it comes out with 0 nitrates. I followed the instructions and have had it running at 1 drop every 2 seconds for the last 2 weeks and the water coming out is still testing the same levels of nitrates as the tank. The instructions say that it will take 4-6 weeks to fully colonize so I am hoping something changes.

I use 0 tds rodi water for that I make at home, for mixing and top off. For the last 8 months I have been using orange bucket reef crystals salt. Before that I tried one box of aquaforest salt but switched back to reef crystals since then. I usually change 5 gallons every weekend, but do miss some weekends.

One issue I think I might be causing is that I only change my filter socks around once a week, sometimes they are really dirty, usually they are not that bad though and water can freely flow through them.

I feed my fish a small amount of the PE pellets, I usually feed until I notice a few pellets reach the sand bed. I also add a bag of Algagen copepods every 2 months or so to supplement what my blenny eats.

Tank Parameters currently:

1.025 Salinity (tested with refracometer calibrated weekly with calibration fluid.)
7.6 dkh Alk (Hanna)
440 Calc (salifert)
1400 Mag (salifert)
0 Ammonia (salifert)
0 Nitrite (salifert)
60-70 nitrate (salifert)
8.1 pH (salifert)
0.028 ppm Po4 (hanna ultra low range)

If anyone has any suggestions, or feedback/questions please let me know. I tried to cover everything on my tank in this textbook sized post haha.

Here is a current full tank shot and sump area taken today.

 

[AcroNem]

First I would say larger water changes. You really aren't removing/diluting very much changing 5 gallons from a 32+sump system. With high nitrates I'd be doing 15-20gallon changes weekly, and starting to vac your sand bed during water changes can help remove a lot from your system.

 

[BeejReef]

Great post. All the info is there for someone to figure it out
Obv question, have you confirmed your nitrate readings with a second test kit or at an LFS? Sounds like many of the remedies you've tried should have worked, or should have at least made a detectable difference.

 

[SPR1968]

With a tank of this size it’s very easy to reduce your nitrates, and as already said, with simple small and frequent water changes to get them down or larger ones if you prefer but then your risking upsetting the water chemistry of the system

You could just do small daily changes for a while until you get the levels down and that won’t be to much of a chore

Nopox will work, and if you get the white slime, just back off 1ml or so and also increase flow or ripple the water surface were the slime forms. It’s generally at the higher doses.

And welcome to R2R as well by the way!

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Hello, I have some questions about controlling nitrates in my aquarium. Maybe I am missing an important step or something. Tank Parameters will be at the bottom of the post.

First my tank is a 32g Biocube with an Icecap rs-15 sump. So with water displacement from rocks and sump added I am probably around 33-34g total water volume. The tank has been setup since November 5th 2017, I seen to always have had issues with high nitrates (50-100+) since the tank has been setup.

I set the tank up to cycle in Nov 7th 2017, with 10lbs of live rock, 15 lbs of dry rock, and 20lb bag of live sand from the LFS. Mid December I added 2 clownfish. Roughly 2 weeks later I added a yellow watchmen Goby and pistol shrimp. Feb 2018 I added a red scooter blenny, and the last fish I added was a pink-streaked wrasse about 3 weeks after the blenny. Throughout the months I have added snails and hermits. I have one emerald crab that has been around since month 3 or so as well. I have lost maybe a dozen or so blue leg hermits throughout the tanks life, So I haven't added any recently. I also have random zoa's, and a few lps corals in the tank.

I added the sump about 5 months into the tank being setup with intentions to grow chaeto. The chaeto would double in size every week with a CFL bulb for light in the sump, but the nitrates always remained high. I ended up ditching the Chaeto after 2 months and added a Reef Octopus 110sss skimmer in hopes that would maybe help remove junk from the water and help keep nitrates down. The skimmer definitely pulls some gunk out of the water to this day, but the nitrates still remain high.

Around June or July 2018 I added 2 maxspect bio blocks to my sump for more surface area for bacteria to grow which seemed to do very little over time.

Around the 1 year mark of the tanks life I also tried dosing nopox and followed the instructions on the bottle manually dosing every morning before work. A white/clear slime began developing all over my tank though even after backing off the dosing for a week so I gave up on dosing that after a month and a half. During this time I ran my skimmer very wet and would have to empty the cup every day or it would overflow the following day. One thing I wasn't really testing for during this time was my Po4, which when I bought my Hanna ultra low range checker it came up 0. I bought some flourish phosphorus and added that per the instructions, everyday for a few weeks I would check the po4 level and it would be 0 again, eventually I caught up with whatever was consuming the po4 and it now sits at 0.028 and goes down 0.002-3 a day if that. I'eve backed off checking it daily since its stabilized though.

3 weeks ago today I bought a Korallin s-1502 biodenitrator and set that up, almost all the reviews online say that within the first week the output of it comes out with 0 nitrates. I followed the instructions and have had it running at 1 drop every 2 seconds for the last 2 weeks and the water coming out is still testing the same levels of nitrates as the tank. The instructions say that it will take 4-6 weeks to fully colonize so I am hoping something changes.

I use 0 tds rodi water for that I make at home, for mixing and top off. For the last 8 months I have been using orange bucket reef crystals salt. Before that I tried one box of aquaforest salt but switched back to reef crystals since then. I usually change 5 gallons every weekend, but do miss some weekends.

One issue I think I might be causing is that I only change my filter socks around once a week, sometimes they are really dirty, usually they are not that bad though and water can freely flow through them.

I feed my fish a small amount of the PE pellets, I usually feed until I notice a few pellets reach the sand bed. I also add a bag of Algagen copepods every 2 months or so to supplement what my blenny eats.

Tank Parameters currently:

1.025 Salinity (tested with refracometer calibrated weekly with calibration fluid.)
7.6 dkh Alk (Hanna)
440 Calc (salifert)
1400 Mag (salifert)
0 Ammonia (salifert)
0 Nitrite (salifert)
60-70 nitrate (salifert)
8.1 pH (salifert)
0.028 ppm Po4 (hanna ultra low range)

If anyone has any suggestions, or feedback/questions please let me know. I tried to cover everything on my tank in this textbook sized post haha.

Here is a current full tank shot and sump area taken today.

Love the setup, welcome, comrade

 

[sghera64]

+1 on having a second test kit verify your measurements of Nitrate.

I would get rid of the socks (nitrate factories).

If you are low on dissolved carbon or PO4, it will stall out the consumption of NO3. Your PO4 readings suggest you have enough of that. You were carbon dosing so I’m surprised that did not work.

You might try to vacuum your gravel (only 1/3 of it) during the next water change. Wait 2 weeks and do the next 1/3 of the gravel/sand. Wait 2 weeks and do the next 1/3. You should have great nitrogen reduction power with the surface area of your sand bed. BUT, not if it is clogged up. Then you will have just the opposite.

One tip I’ve not seen mentioned yet is to inoculate the system with some beneficial bacteria. Since you have a sand bed, you might consider both of Dr. Tim’s Waste-A-Way and Refresh. I would not dose at the recommended level at first. I would start with 25% or 50% of the labels dosing and ramp up slowly. If you have a lot of food for the bugs, the initial dose will multiply on its own.

You did not mention this and I can’t tell from the picture, but one thing that help is to have a lot of in-tank water movement. It can really drive the bio processes on the solid surfaces and a little into the pores (think sand, rock structure, etc).

If you can go back to growing chaeto, I would recommend it. It does more than just grow and consume nitrate / phosphate. It hosts bacteria, pods and it releases sugars (carbon source). I find macro algae acts like a bio-buffer. Sometimes it removes things, other times it releases things - - both benefit the coral and fish.

 

[Oneforone]

Thank you all for your replies!

I have tested with api and Salifert for no3. My lfs has tested my water a few times over the year and they have said it’s on the higher side, honestly don’t remember the exact amounts when tested there.

I will look into the dr Tim’s waste-a-way, I have never heard of that.

For surface agitation I have he icecap gyre 1k, this thing really pumps water and I can’t put it on more than 20% without it blowing sand everywhere.

Another question, Do I have to have a certain ratio of po4/po3 before bacteria will consume nitrates? If I get my nitrates down to say 10 with water changes would it be easier for bacteria alone to keep them at bay? How are the tanks that have to dose nitrates able to keep them so low? I feel like I’m not seeing the whole picture when it comes to the nitrate consumption cycle or missing a piece of the puzzle so my tank can keep lower nitrates.

Thank you again to all that have replied so far!

 

[Alexreefer]

Is it possible to take a video of you scooping up some sand and letting it go in the water? If it clouds you have major detritus build up in your sb. If so than siphon your sandbed as stated above.

 

[Tamberav]

My nitrates stay low in my nano tanks and I feed heavily. Do you use a turkey baster to blast the rocks free of debris and vaccume the sand? I do this with my weekly maint. That stuff will get nasty with fish poop and debris if you don't.

 

[Tamberav]

My nitrates stay low in my nano tanks and I feed heavily. Do you use a turkey baster to blast the rocks free of debris and vaccume the sand? I do this with my weekly maint. That stuff will get nasty with fish poop and debris if you don't.

 

[sghera64]

Thank you all for your replies!

I have tested with api and Salifert for no3. My lfs has tested my water a few times over the year and they have said it’s on the higher side, honestly don’t remember the exact amounts when tested there.

I will look into the dr Tim’s waste-a-way, I have never heard of that.

For surface agitation I have he icecap gyre 1k, this thing really pumps water and I can’t put it on more than 20% without it blowing sand everywhere.

Another question, Do I have to have a certain ratio of po4/po3 before bacteria will consume nitrates? If I get my nitrates down to say 10 with water changes would it be easier for bacteria alone to keep them at bay? How are the tanks that have to dose nitrates able to keep them so low? I feel like I’m not seeing the whole picture when it comes to the nitrate consumption cycle or missing a piece of the puzzle so my tank can keep lower nitrates.

Thank you again to all that have replied so far!

My tank has a deep sand bed. Nitrates were 65 ppm (Red Sea Pro) I’m December. I got my chaeto restarted in March (after a big die off). Nitrates tanked and the PO4 went from 30 ppm to 100 ppb and climbing. I had to dose NO3 and get them above 1.5ppm before my PO4 came down (60-ish now). I share this to say that if you are limited in an essential item (bugs, N, C, P) the sequester processes slow way down.

In your case, I suspect your sand bed may be working in reverse. You’ve tried carbon dosing and your P levels are fine. So, you may be short on surface area for good bugs and holding a large volume of waste releasing N into the water.

Have you ever “turned” or “disrupted” your sand bed?

 

[Oneforone]

My tank has a deep sand bed. Nitrates were 65 ppm (Red Sea Pro) I’m December. I got my chaeto restarted in March (after a big die off). Nitrates tanked and the PO4 went from 30 ppm to 100 ppb and climbing. I had to dose NO3 and get them above 1.5ppm before my PO4 came down (60-ish now). I share this to say that if you are limited in an essential item (bugs, N, C, P) the sequester processes slow way down.

In your case, I suspect your sand bed may be working in reverse. You’ve tried carbon dosing and your P levels are fine. So, you may be short on surface area for good bugs and holding a large volume of waste releasing N into the water.

Have you ever “turned” or “disrupted” your sand bed?

I have off and on siphoned sections of my sand bed, definitely not a regular thing to do during a water change though. I forgot to add in my original post that I have an elephant trunk snail, which is constantly plowing around in the sand bed leaving little ditches in the sand where its been.

 

[sghera64]

.

Tank Parameters currently:

1.025 Salinity (tested with refracometer calibrated weekly with calibration fluid.)
7.6 dkh Alk (Hanna)
440 Calc (salifert)
1400 Mag (salifert)
0 Ammonia (salifert)
0 Nitrite (salifert)
60-70 nitrate (salifert)
8.1 pH (salifert)
0.028 ppm Po4 (hanna ultra low range)

If anyone has any suggestions, or feedback/questions please let me know. I tried to cover everything on my tank in this textbook sized post haha.

Here is a current full tank shot and sump area taken today.

Does your Hanna ULR checker read 28, or more like 8?

The Hanna ULR checker reports in units of inorganic phosphate (or Pi), and not PO4. If your reading display says 28, then the actual value of your phosphate is more like 86 ppb-PO4. You have to multiply the screen value by 3.06 to convert from Pi to PO4.

 

[Oneforone]

Does your Hanna ULR checker read 28, or more like 8?

The Hanna ULR checker reports in units of inorganic phosphate (or Pi), and not PO4. If your reading display says 28, then the actual value of your phosphate is more like 86 ppb-PO4. You have to multiply the screen value by 3.06 to convert from Pi to PO4.

It read 9ppb the other day, converted to ppm its 0.028 according to the hanna website.

My nitrates stay low in my nano tanks and I feed heavily. Do you use a turkey baster to blast the rocks free of debris and vaccume the sand? I do this with my weekly maint. That stuff will get nasty with fish poop and debris if you don't.

Yes I use a small coral feeding baster to blast the tops of my rocks, there is definitely some areas I target because they seem to catch a lot of stuff in them in the rocks.