Nitrate, the bogeyman.

[Belgian Anthias]

When nitrate is build up, battling nitrate is a priority. Why? Nitrate is safely stored nitrogen. As far as I know it is not dangerous as long there is not to much? And to much is very much!
Why starting battling nitrates without looking first for the reason what caused nitrate to build up? What is the hurry?
When nitrate is building up it is generally accepted corals grow badly. Why not accept nitrate is building up because the corrals grow badly as they will consume less nitrogen when growing badly?
Maybe both symptoms have the same cause? Maybe the bad coral growth is caused by the skimmer? Or by a badly managed absorber? This can easily be verified!
Battling nitrates before knowing the cause of the nitrates building up may increase the problem and when it becomes worse nitrate is the bogeyman!
What is your reason to say that nitrate is the bogeyman?

 

[lapin]

If nothing you can see is eating your coral, then nitrate is the first thing that comes to mind and it is easy to measure. I think a lot of reefers give up measuring it after a period of time. Sticking with Cal Mag and Alk. When things go south they measure other things and find they have nitrate levels that are a lot higher than they were. Bingo that got to be it. So what do we do? We go with the flow. Grab that bottle of Stoli out of the freezer and have shot then give a shot to the tank.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

What is the motivation for reefers not to use a bio-filter for managing the nitrogen cycle in a closed reef system? A bio is considered a safe and very relaible way for maintaining the carrying capacity by reducing ammonia and removing ammonia-nitrogen. The carrying capacity of the system can be adjusted to the needs and can easily be managed.

Why is nitrate considered by reefers as the bogeyman?

In the literature a lot of autors ban the BIO because it produces nitrate. As does nitrification taking place within the aquarium. ( biofilters based on simultanious nitrification and denitrification do not have nitrate as an endproduct but nitrogen gas.

Nitrate is safely stored ammonium-nitrogen and nitrite-nitrogen!
Why is nitrate considered to be dangerous? For what?

Whithout nitrate the nitrogen cycle can not be closed! Without nitrate a lot of natural processes, processes that make life possible, cannot take place, are not possible.

As nitrate measured is what is left over, the nitrate level does not tell a thing about the daily ammonia, nitrite and nitrate production in the system. The nitrate level may build up or decrease slowly or rapidely. The daily nitrate overprodudtion can be an indicator for managing the nitrogen content, not the nitrate level.

If it is not nitrate it must be the nitrate level wich is the bogeyman.
It is known nitrate may be toxic at high levels, for fish and shrimp very high levels. As are pattoas for humans.

Must a nitrate level of min +- 2ppm NO3-N ( +-8ppm NO3) be maintained to prevent nitrogen starvation at all times or may nitrogen become the limiting factor in a closed system?

What is your motivation for trying to maintain the nitate level at a very low level?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

[QUOTE="lapin, post: 5818949, member: 91935"]If nothing you can see is eating your coral, then nitrate is the first thing that comes to mind and it is easy to measure..[/QUOTE]

Why?

 

[lapin]

[QUOTE="lapin, post: 5818949, member: 91935"]If nothing you can see is eating your coral, then nitrate is the first thing that comes to mind and it is easy to measure..

Why?[/QUOTE]
If your Alk Cal and Mag are measured every week and they are in line, people start to measure the other things when corals turn brown or start to die.
What test kits does everyone have?
Usually Nitrate Ammonia and Phosphate.
Odds are they will not find ammonia.
We are left with Nitrate and Phosphate.
Most people want these at abnormally low levels to color up the sticks, via starvation.
If they have not measured in a while they will see levels higher than when they last measured.
So its easy to fix the elevated Nitrate via Stoli dosing. Next they run a bunch of GFO in a reactor.
Im not saying this is the correct way to fix the issue, just easy things that can be done that might help.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Why?

If your Alk Cal and Mag are measured every week and they are in line, people start to measure the other things when corals turn brown or start to die.
What test kits does everyone have?
Usually Nitrate Ammonia and Phosphate.
Odds are they will not find ammonia.
We are left with Nitrate and Phosphate.
Most people want these at abnormally low levels to color up the sticks, via starvation.
If they have not measured in a while they will see levels higher than when they last measured.
So its easy to fix the elevated Nitrate via Stoli dosing. Next they run a bunch of GFO in a reactor.
Im not saying this is the correct way to fix the issue, just easy things that can be done that might help.[/QUOTE]

What would be the relation between the nitrate level and dying corals?
Stoli is vodka?
Starting to battle nitrate by dosing vodka without checking first what caused nitrate level to increase is not the first thing to do as the nitrate level is in no way a danger for the system. Dosing "Stoli" may increase the problem as corals may be starved due to lack of other basic building materials, corals do not die of an increased nitrate level.

 

[lapin]

I know this but many do not. Many think starving corals is a good thing .01P and <2 N, then wonder why they dont look good if 1 little thing changes.
You asked and I presented an answer based on what I read on forums. These are suggestions others present and others blindly follow.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

An increasing nitrate level may be the indicator something is wrong but will not be the cause. This can easily be checked by decreasing the removal rate of the skimmer. The nitrate level may be controled just by managing the skimmer.
The cause must be found in the reasons why the nitrate level may increase. Why most nitrogen is not consumed or/and removed any more, even not by photo-autotrophs?

If the nitrate present in the water columln is able to influance the growth of corals this may be a singn something is wrong within the coral holoboint.
If symbiodinium ( dinoflaggellates) grow fast this means there is more ammonia-nitrogen availability. Using nitrate-nitrogen slows down the growth rate of photo-autotrophs. During high nitrogen availability ( ammonia-nitrogen) causing a high growth rate of the symbiodinium, the symbiodinium may die off due to sudden phosphorus starvation. What causes a high ammonia-nitrogen availability!?

In normal circumstances there is no difference in growth of photo-autotrops using nitrate-nitrogen at a high or low nitrate level.

A high nitrate level DOES NOT increase the growth rate of photo-autotrophs including of algae! Ammonia-nitrogen availability does!

Nitrate caused a significant reduction in calcification, while there was no effect of ammonium. Nitrate also caused a significant increase in chlorophyll density within Symbiodinium, but again ammonium had no effect. In contrast, only ammonium caused a significant increase in the density of Symbiodinium in the coral tissue, while nitrate had a trending positive but unimportant effect. The nitrogen source probably has an influence on the color of the coral. (Shantz, Andrew A., en Deron E. Burkepile. “Context-Dependent Effects of Nutrient Loading on the Coral-Algal Mutualism”. Ecology 95, nr. 7 (z.d.): 1995–2005.)