Nitrates always high, could it be my rock?

[LadyMac]

It doesn’t matter how much water I change, my nitrates are always through the roof! All other parameters are spot on. I use the Red Sea algae kit to test. I thought it was just an inaccurate batch. Checked with api (I know not the best) but it coincides with it as well. Is it possible that my rock is just leeching nitrates?

For reference, when I started I cycled with tap. Then did a 90% change and went to distilled. (Green label at Walmart)Then bought another type (purple label) and started to have issues. Then bought an RODI unit (RO buddie). Cartridges have been replaced, the DI resin is good. I checked my tap. I’ve checked the RODI water. All is zero nitrates. Fish do well. I have a pair of clowns, a lawnmower blenny, a pistol shrimp, a few snails and a few hermits. I have a couple zoa and palythoa frags. None are thriving though they are surviving. Some chaeto growing in my sump. A skimmer that skims well. I stir the sand with the siphon during changes which I do at least 30% weekly. Tank is a 60 tall. Sump holds about five gallons. Oh and one piece of my rock that did have coralline is turning a brown/black/grey. And I have vermitid snails

I’m worried I’m going to have to toss this rock but I don’t have the money to replace it

 

[Coralreefer1]

The only way it could be your rock is if you have uncured rock, or a large collection of detritus under and between your rock.

 

[Hemmdog]

Can we see a pic of this setup with sump, skimmer, and all.

 

[LadyMac]

Rocks been in use about a year? Or two... however long I’ve had the tank up and going. It was dry rock. Shouldn’t have detritus under. I have the pistol shrimp who likes to clean things up under there. Nd the stacking should allow for movement. any idea what else would have it so high?

Pics

Fts. Ignore how tacky it is. It’s what I have to work with. I know the hair algae is due to the nitrates. But it does seem to be dwindling down some. No change in the readings of the nitrates.

Sump. I pulled the rock with the grey/black/ brown in hopes that it will stop changing colors. It’s in the sump. I rinse the pads out every other day, and clean the skimmer cup as needed. I also wipe out the sump bottom to get some of the funk out. It’s due to be done today. I don’t know if it matters but I don’t clean that the same days I clean the pads.

Not sure if this matters but here is my overflow. Again not the best but it’s what I have to work with. I clean the pad in this when I do the others. And I clean the rest of it the best I can.

 

[BeejReef]

Hmmm... I mean, you are exporting like crazy between siphoning, water changes, skimming, and natural algae growth.

If you don't come up with any easy answers, I'd dig deeper into your water source. That seems to be the wild card here. Chlorine and Chloramine (typical municipal water system disinfectants) both break down into ammonia, which ultimately breaks down into Nitrate.

Assuming your new RODI system has solved this problem, the nitrate should come down with continued water changes. Some cities use chloramine though, and it takes an average to average+ RODI to get all of that stuff out.

Hopefully this is all just a stupid theory and it's just that one of your rocks "died." If that doesn't explain it though, I'd look at the water again. The nitrates could be "hiding" as chlorine or chloramine.

 

[Hemmdog]

What’s size is that skimmer rated for? The skim looks pretty clear, meaning it’s not taking a ton of yuck out.

 

[LadyMac]

The skimmer is a Sealife Seastorm with a Venturi pump. This is the pump it uses.

Amazon.com : Catalina Aquarium CA 2200 Aquarium Pump 850 GPH : Aquarium Water Pumps : Pet Supplies

Amazon.com : Catalina Aquarium CA 2200 Aquarium Pump 850 GPH : Aquarium Water Pumps : Pet Supplies

www.amazon.com

The skimmate is rather clear today. I did a water change yesterday and forgot to shut it off. When the sump started to fill it dumped water into the bottle lol. I just haven’t emptied the bottle or the cup from then. It’s usually much darker, like what’s on the neck:

It’s a pretty good skimmer. I get nice thick goop quite often.

As for size rating, I honestly don’t know. I do know it’s much better than the one I had before which was an in tank skimmer.

 

[Hemmdog]

The skimmer is a Sealife Seastorm with a Venturi pump. This is the pump it uses.

Amazon.com : Catalina Aquarium CA 2200 Aquarium Pump 850 GPH : Aquarium Water Pumps : Pet Supplies

Amazon.com : Catalina Aquarium CA 2200 Aquarium Pump 850 GPH : Aquarium Water Pumps : Pet Supplies

www.amazon.com

The skimmate is rather clear today. I did a water change yesterday and forgot to shut it off. When the sump started to fill it dumped water into the bottle lol. I just haven’t emptied the bottle or the cup from then. It’s usually much darker, like what’s on the neck:

It’s a pretty good skimmer. I get nice thick goop quite often.

As for size rating, I honestly don’t know. I do know it’s much better than the one I had before which was an in tank skimmer.

Niceee lol. I’m not sure then

 

[LadyMac]

So, skimmers good? It seems to work well enough. I just don’t know a lot about them honestly.

 

[Hemmdog]

So, skimmers good? It seems to work well enough. I just don’t know a lot about them honestly.

If it pulls out dark stuff then yea that’s good. This is my sump area on my 90 for reference. Only 30 gal bigger display.

Skimmer rated for 220 gallons, fuge with macro, marinepure balls, chemipure elite bag in the baffle. This keeps my nitrates at about 5. Phos 0.02

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Evening

Sorry to hear about the troubles. I was in the same position for years. I have a sump, skimmer, etc on my 180. Never went below 40.

This will sound weird (and it is a crackpot theory) but I had a leak and had to shut down my sump for 2 weeks waiting for my new one. I was testing constantly worried without a sump it would rocket. It actually went down to near zero. My only guess is without the water continuously running the loop it was confined to the tank in a closed environment and was forced to equalize. Again just crazy thought.

I noticed your sump. It looks like a wet dry converted to a sump. If that is the case I may be tempted to run it as a modified wet dry. Get some plastic bioballs, put them in and a drip tray on top. Put a filter pad in the drip dry to catch detris and see what happens after a month. Again just a suggestion

 

[LadyMac]

Evening

Sorry to hear about the troubles. I was in the same position for years. I have a sump, skimmer, etc on my 180. Never went below 40.

This will sound weird (and it is a crackpot theory) but I had a leak and had to shut down my sump for 2 weeks waiting for my new one. I was testing constantly worried without a sump it would rocket. It actually went down to near zero. My only guess is without the water continuously running the loop it was confined to the tank in a closed environment and was forced to equalize. Again just crazy thought.

I noticed your sump. It looks like a wet dry converted to a sump. If that is the case I may be tempted to run it as a modified wet dry. Get some plastic bioballs, put them in and a drip tray on top. Put a filter pad in the drip dry to catch detris and see what happens after a month. Again just a suggestion

The sump is indeed a modified wet dry. I had another sump before that. My issue with the wet dry is I’ve read it’s not good for reef systems, nitrates will go higher, and it’s loud. I could shut off the flow to the sump to test if it would equalize but then I wouldn’t have my skimmer.

 

[rkpetersen]

If your nitrates are high, you are likely overfeeding and/or under-exporting.

Two clowns and a lawnmover blenny require very little food each day.

Try to export the organics before they convert to nitrate. More effective skimming is one way to do this.
Siphoning organic detritus from the tank, pads/socks, and sump regularly should help.

I wouldn't recommend adding bioballs or similar media. This stuff speeds up the conversion of organics to nitrate.
And a wet-dry filter typically comes before the skimmer, which then has less organics available to remove.
This is why wet-dry filters are considered to be nitrate generating machines.

If you want to add media to your sump, you could try marine pure or siporax.
If used properly, these can develop anaerobic zones that promote denitrification, which bioballs will never do.
But it can take a long time for denitrifying areas within the media to develop.
New denitrification zones is one reason people sometimes see nitrate dropping after a system has been up for a time.
Not just added media, but rocks can also start denitrifying in their deeper recesses.

I don't see your chaeto, so if it's very small and not growing well, it's likely doing little to remove nitrate from the water.
You didn't give your phosphate level; chaeto requires some phosphate present to grow and remove both it and nitrate.
Also if the chaeto dies back, it releases what nitrate it already has incorporated back into the water.

 

[Whiterabbitrage]

That’s a nice set up you have!
If it’s just nitrate and not phos, maybe try a remote deep sand bed. I built one using an old salt bucket ( 5 gallon) filled it with sand, and added a little pump to move water through. I haven’t had testable nitrate since.
Anyway, good luck!

 

[LadyMac]

If your nitrates are high, you are likely overfeeding and/or under-exporting.

Two clowns and a lawnmover blenny require very little food each day.

Try to export the organics before they convert to nitrate. More effective skimming is one way to do this.
Siphoning organic detritus from the tank, pads/socks, and sump regularly should help.

I wouldn't recommend adding bioballs or similar media. This stuff speeds up the conversion of organics to nitrate.
And a wet-dry filter typically comes before the skimmer, which then has less organics available to remove.
This is why wet-dry filters are considered to be nitrate generating machines.

If you want to add media to your sump, you could try marine pure or siporax.
If used properly, these can develop anaerobic zones that promote denitrification, which bioballs will never do.
But it can take a long time for denitrifying areas within the media to develop.
New denitrification zones is one reason people sometimes see nitrate dropping after a system has been up for a time.
Not just added media, but rocks can also start denitrifying in their deeper recesses.

I don't see your chaeto, so if it's very small and not growing well, it's likely doing little to remove nitrate from the water.
You didn't give your phosphate level; chaeto requires some phosphate present to grow and remove both it and nitrate.
Also if the chaeto dies back, it releases what nitrate it already has incorporated back into the water.

Thank you!

I don’t feed the blenny, she eats on the algae in the tank. Always nice and fat. I feed the clowns omega one marine pellets, which comes with a (way too big) spoon. I was told handling the food could also cause water quality issues so I always use said spoon. I put about seven pellets on it, between the two. And feed about every three days. They always seem nice and fat so I don’t feed more than that because nitrates.

I do rinse off the pads frequently. I siphon the sand as much as I can, and use a turkey baster to blow off the rocks.

My main reason on the sump is to hold the skimmer. It’s a Venturi style so should be good enough for the 60 gallons.

The chaeto is fairly new. A month? Maybe. I checked today. I read at zero phosphates. How can I raise these to boost the charts growth? Or is that not recommended?

 

[LadyMac]

That’s a nice set up you have!
If it’s just nitrate and not phos, maybe try a remote deep sand bed. I built one using an old salt bucket ( 5 gallon) filled it with sand, and added a little pump to move water through. I haven’t had testable nitrate since.
Anyway, good luck!

Thank you!

Do you have a DIY on the sand bed? Since I have a pistol shrimp in the display, maybe I can add more sand to the tank to help? It’s only about 50lbs now, minus a bit here and there with siphoning.

 

[rkpetersen]

The chaeto is fairly new. A month? Maybe. I checked today. I read at zero phosphates. How can I raise these to boost the charts growth? Or is that not recommended?

Some people do add phosphate in your situation. I personally avoid doing so if I can work out another method to balance nitrate and phosphate, some of which I described above. If you want to try it, it's probably easiest to start with a commercial product like NeoPhos, and start off using less than the recommended dosage, increasing as needed based on testing.

 

[rkpetersen]

Thank you!

Do you have a DIY on the sand bed? Since I have a pistol shrimp in the display, maybe I can add more sand to the tank to help? It’s only about 50lbs now, minus a bit here and there with siphoning.

@Whiterabbitrage is talking about a remote DSB - in a separate container/tank than your display. Typically very deep, like 6" or more. It's another way to do what I was talking about in post #13 - creating an anaerobic zone where denitrification takes place.

 

[beaslbob]

The nitrates come overwhelming from the bioload not the input water, rocks and so on.

Your nitrates are not zero because the bioload producing the nitrates exceeds the nitrate consumers like various algae.

This might not be such a bad thing overall. Algae will first consume ammonia then nitrates. So it could be your refugium and algae are doing that. then as bacteria build up the algae will have to use nitrates for nitrogen.

I would do everything to encourage the algae in the refugium and hopefully the nitrates will eventually drop.

my .02

 

[JOKER]

I wonder if an ATS may serve your situation well.