Nitrates high? But why?

[Kmackenzie91]

Hey everyone, first time poster here.

Been bringing my tank back to what I want it to be since a bit of neglect from having a young kid. I've got it looking pretty decent right now, but the nitrate levels are still a large concern and coming in rather elevated. I'm wondering if someone can shed some light on what exactly I can do to bring this under control because there's surely something I'm missing. I'll provide some details below:

Tank is a 70g cube with a 20g sump underneath. Space is super tight under it and I have a bubble magus curve 7 skimmer on it which makes it even tighter.
The cap on the skimmer recently cracked, I since had one 3D printed and got it to fit the hole and seal it up.

The sump set up forces the skimmer to be in about 11 inches of water for depth which is not ideal but I can't lift it any higher given the size of the skimmer under that tank and the clearance that I have available. I might have 1 inch on to of the skimmer cup for wiggle room so, again, it's tight.

The sump is a 3 chamber. 1st is the skimmer, 2nd has a sand bed and is loaded with smaller live rock pieces, 3rd chamber is for the return pump. There is a bubble trap between the 2nd and 3rd chamber. If people want, I can provide pictures of this if it would help.

I have a white silica sand bed (caribsea stuff) with eggcrate underneath it. I have a fair bit of live rock in the tank and do have it forming basically a pile in the middle with a cave. I'll post up a photo below.

My tank parameters are otherwise decent (see below) and some coral growth is happening. I'm only growing easier things (no sps). Basically zoas, a frogspawn, etc.

I am running Chinese lighting on the tank and looking to do an upgrade.

I am not using a RODI system on my tank, although I am using a tap filtration system on the tap which does eliminate some things. I tested the source water and the results for ammonia and nitrate were both 0.

The levels were previously very elevated (we're talking north of 120). My kid got feeding the tank and stuff got out of control. Sine then I did two 40% water changes and it lowered the levels to where it is now. I've run more water changes since then (smaller 10-15% ones) and no change. It seems to have plateaued and I'm scratching my head.

I feed a combination of things to the tank on a three day rotation.
- Frozen spirulina brine shrimp on the first day - one small cube, even the green mandarin eats this.
- Cobalt brand premium brine shrimp flakes (small pinch)
- Sea veggies seaweed - 1/4 small sheet.

Tank parameters:

Cal: 420
Mg: 1440
Alk: 9.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrates: 40-60 ppm
tank stock list

Fish list:
1 Yellow eye kole, 2 clowns, 1 six line wrasse, 1 blue damsel, 1 green mandarin and 1 neon dottyback so bioload isn't that much of a concern.

Inverts:
1 extra large banded serpent starfish, 3 nassarius snails, 7 trochus snails, 4 hermit crabs.

Any help at all would be appreciated.

 

[ndrwater]

First off, WELCOME TO R2R!! You'll like it here.
Your tank looks just fine. Seems your diligence with water changes has paid off. Keep it up and you'll see even better results.
As far as RODI, it's not mandatory, but suggested. Reason is we can never control the quality of the water in our tanks if we are relying on a filter that doesn't hypothetically take things to H2O and ONLY H2O.
Different parts of the country and world for that matter use different additives in the municipal water supply. Sometimes changing things up with the seasons. This alone is a reason for RODI.
Now.. 40-60 ppm Nitrate is indeed what would be considered elevated, but not catastrophically so. There are MANY systems by world renowned reefers that commonly run in that range.
Best bet is look at the corals. They'll tell you if they are unhappy.

 

[lapin]

Howdy and welcome
Im going to assume you have elevated phosphate levels also.
If yu want to reduce both levels there is something called carbon dosing. It works.

Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

www.reefkeeping.com

 

[Kmackenzie91]

First off, WELCOME TO R2R!! You'll like it here.
Your tank looks just fine. Seems your diligence with water changes has paid off. Keep it up and you'll see even better results.
As far as RODI, it's not mandatory, but suggested. Reason is we can never control the quality of the water in our tanks if we are relying on a filter that doesn't hypothetically take things to H2O and ONLY H2O.
Different parts of the country and world for that matter use different additives in the municipal water supply. Sometimes changing things up with the seasons. This alone is a reason for RODI.
Now.. 40-60 ppm Nitrate is indeed what would be considered elevated, but not catastrophically so. There are MANY systems by world renowned reefers that commonly run in that range.
Best bet is look at the corals. They'll tell you if they are unhappy.

Thanks for the welcome. The corals don't look angry or retracted in the slightest but whenever I put anything sps into the tank, it's toast within a couple weeks. Not sure if that's due to my water, or possibly due to the lighting or what's going on there. I agree, RODI is a much better option. A LFS near my house gives it away for free. Typically, I'd stop by there and grab some for a water change but COVID-19 has put a bit of a wrench in that.

 

[Kmackenzie91]

Howdy and welcome
Im going to assume you have elevated phosphate levels also.
If yu want to reduce both levels there is something called carbon dosing. It works.

Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

www.reefkeeping.com

Thanks for the welcome.

I put some https://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-phos-sponge.htm into my sump in a media bag, allowed it to be in direct flow and let it go for 24 hours. I assumed that my phosphate levels would be elevated. I don't have a test kit for it currently (old one expired) and should probably get one.

I've never actually done any dosing of any sorts. Little intimidated by it to be honest. However, if it will help, and I'm able to get my system running the way that it should parameter wise, I'm all for learning it.

 

[HarleighHesse]

Hey! Welcome to the group! I'm pretty new to posts as well! I've got the same problem! I've had high nitrates since december. They were 10 but then climbed to where they are now, at 40-60. I haven't done a water change in a while, so I'll try that, but has anyone here ever used the product "Red sea NO3 : PO4"? Apparently it pulls nitrates and phosphates out...

 

[lapin]

Hey! Welcome to the group! I'm pretty new to posts as well! I've got the same problem! I've had high nitrates since december. They were 10 but then climbed to where they are now, at 40-60. I haven't done a water change in a while, so I'll try that, but has anyone here ever used the product "Red sea NO3 : PO4"? Apparently it pulls nitrates and phosphates out...

This is what is known as NoPox.
It is carbon dosing. You are paying red sea for the vinegar and vodka and some instructions.

 

[Kmackenzie91]

Out of curiosity, when doing a vinegar dose, would I dose manually with a syringe into the sump? Also should I dose something to counter a potential ph drop? Read the article that was linked briefly

 

[lapin]

You ramp up carbon dosing over a few weeks time.
I would start with 1/2 of what the table says, just to prevent a bacterial bloom.
You should not see much of a Ph drop.
FYI: You can counter any temporary drop in Ph with some club soda.
I dose once a day in the AM, into the sump.
I dose both vodka and vinegar because I think some bacteria like vodka and some like vinegar.

 

[Kmackenzie91]

Howdy and welcome
Im going to assume you have elevated phosphate levels also.
If yu want to reduce both levels there is something called carbon dosing. It works.

Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

www.reefkeeping.com

just curious, for my tank it's a 70g cube with a 20g sump on it. Am I calculating my amount of water as 90g or am I taking the 90 and subtracting roughly the amount of volume occupied by liverock and other objects?

 

[lapin]

Subtract something for the rock and stuff. Also your sump may hold 20 gallons when full, but is it full?

 

[Kmackenzie91]

Subtract something for the rock and stuff. Also your sump may hold 20 gallons when full, but is it full?

I would guess that my tank is holding about 10g of water at any given time. Tank somewhere around 55. So then dose as if it's 65g

 

[Jenuvio]

BTW .. Nice pic! Kenya tree dominated

 

[BobbyCline]

Don't see any mention of a watering changing schedule prior to realizing your nitrates were really high.

I'd recommend doing this first...a regular water change schedule.

Dosing (carbon, NOPOX, etc..) works, but it can create further problems. I experienced this firsthand and it was alot worse than high nitrates.

A couple other suggestions would be:

-Get an RO DI system...it's not that expensive and I can't imagine having a tank without it.

-Never try to remedy a potential problem (in your case assumed high phosphate levels) without testing to confirm it actually exists.

Long story short, start with basics in an attempt to solve your problems. You can search these threads and you will see lots of people talking about problems they have encountered related to dosing. You won't those same stories about more conservative (yet still highly effective) approaches like the good old fashioned water change.

 

[lapin]

The levels were previously very elevated (we're talking north of 120). My kid got feeding the tank and stuff got out of control. Since then I did two 40% water changes and it lowered the levels to where it is now. I've run more water changes since then (smaller 10-15% ones) and no change. It seems to have plateaued and I'm scratching my head.

I think it was mentioned

 

[Kmackenzie91]

BTW .. Nice pic! Kenya tree dominated

yea, the Kenya's got a little out of control in the first three years after my son was born. I've been selling/giving them away, along with devils hands for other people. The water changes got super lax too which is largely why the nitrates had gotten out of control. I regularly do a 10% weekly now but the plateau is at 40-60 ppm now. Going to toss some Chaeto to try and eat it up.

 

[mitch91175]

Hey everyone, first time poster here.

Been bringing my tank back to what I want it to be since a bit of neglect from having a young kid. I've got it looking pretty decent right now, but the nitrate levels are still a large concern and coming in rather elevated. I'm wondering if someone can shed some light on what exactly I can do to bring this under control because there's surely something I'm missing. I'll provide some details below:

Tank is a 70g cube with a 20g sump underneath. Space is super tight under it and I have a bubble magus curve 7 skimmer on it which makes it even tighter.
The cap on the skimmer recently cracked, I since had one 3D printed and got it to fit the hole and seal it up.

The sump set up forces the skimmer to be in about 11 inches of water for depth which is not ideal but I can't lift it any higher given the size of the skimmer under that tank and the clearance that I have available. I might have 1 inch on to of the skimmer cup for wiggle room so, again, it's tight.

The sump is a 3 chamber. 1st is the skimmer, 2nd has a sand bed and is loaded with smaller live rock pieces, 3rd chamber is for the return pump. There is a bubble trap between the 2nd and 3rd chamber. If people want, I can provide pictures of this if it would help.

I have a white silica sand bed (caribsea stuff) with eggcrate underneath it. I have a fair bit of live rock in the tank and do have it forming basically a pile in the middle with a cave. I'll post up a photo below.

My tank parameters are otherwise decent (see below) and some coral growth is happening. I'm only growing easier things (no sps). Basically zoas, a frogspawn, etc.

I am running Chinese lighting on the tank and looking to do an upgrade.

I am not using a RODI system on my tank, although I am using a tap filtration system on the tap which does eliminate some things. I tested the source water and the results for ammonia and nitrate were both 0.

The levels were previously very elevated (we're talking north of 120). My kid got feeding the tank and stuff got out of control. Sine then I did two 40% water changes and it lowered the levels to where it is now. I've run more water changes since then (smaller 10-15% ones) and no change. It seems to have plateaued and I'm scratching my head.

I feed a combination of things to the tank on a three day rotation.
- Frozen spirulina brine shrimp on the first day - one small cube, even the green mandarin eats this.
- Cobalt brand premium brine shrimp flakes (small pinch)
- Sea veggies seaweed - 1/4 small sheet.

Tank parameters:

Cal: 420
Mg: 1440
Alk: 9.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrates: 40-60 ppm
tank stock list

Fish list:
1 Yellow eye kole, 2 clowns, 1 six line wrasse, 1 blue damsel, 1 green mandarin and 1 neon dottyback so bioload isn't that much of a concern.

Inverts:
1 extra large banded serpent starfish, 3 nassarius snails, 7 trochus snails, 4 hermit crabs.

Any help at all would be appreciated.

Welcome to R2R. Nice looking system being that you feel you are having issues. First question I'd ask is what are your phosphates? If they are detectable say around 0.15-0.2 range then using something like NoPox will help. You have to watch both when trying to control the other. Too low PO4/NO3 you can get dinoflagellates, cyanobacteria, etc.

You can dose a carbon source to help lower NO3 like vinegar, vodka, sugar (I've always thought about them in that order). There are calculators online that will tell you how much to dose for your system depending on which method you choose.

With limited space, but maybe you can swing putting some chaeto in the 2nd chamber of your sump.

But I wouldn't freak out with how your tank looks from the picture.If you transition to more stony coral, then those parameters become more critical (NO3/PO4, etc).

 

[BobbyCline]

I think it was mentioned

This is not a regular water change schedule.

 

[mbmartin06]

just curious, for my tank it's a 70g cube with a 20g sump on it. Am I calculating my amount of water as 90g or am I taking the 90 and subtracting roughly the amount of volume occupied by liverock and other objects?

This helped me with the calculations for total water volume.

Aquarium System Volume Calculator

 

[Kmackenzie91]

Update: since I fixed my skimmer and started to run a wet skim that is basically hailing out the amount of my water change over the past week, I've knocked my nitrates down from 40-60ppm to 20ppm. Everything else still looks good and the corals are looking pretty fat