Nitrates & Phosphates

[Spdjnky]

I'm having trouble keeping phosphates between .03 and .06 where they should be. At the same time I would like to keep my nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm but I can't seem to keep them even 1 ppm
I have mixed up or sodium nitrate solution and it seems to work very good but at the same time and I haven't checked it again yet but I believe raising the nitrates will also raise phosphates am I correct? Right now I can does sodium nitrate and bring my nitrates to where they need to be but I am afraid to do so because of the phosphates which were 1.7 ppm this morning only two days after using new media in the reactor
Back to the phosphates I can run phosphate and minus in my reactor and bring them down to zero but they won't stay they exhaust the phosphate minus real fast.
I have a refugium that just has Sea Lettuce in it And obviously works great for Nitrates but doesn't seem to touch phosphate. I will be breaking it up into four sections next week and using different types of algae to hopefully do a better job controlling phosphates.
I don't believe I am over feeding or doing anything different that would cause the phosphate to be out of control the only thing I can think of is that my RO/DI system wasn't working right. My DI resin was being used up real fast to keep the TDS at zero I tested the output for phosphates and found .05 ppm.
Anyways I have a new RO membrane coming along with carbon in sediment so that will be back in tiptop shape next week. And I have a call in hopefully next week I will be sure that they are not using Cloramine in my water anyways that problem will be taken care of.
So my original question still is if I raise nitrates to where I want them with sodium nitrate will that affect my phosphates and if so how to correct it thank you.
Phil

 

[Travis Stewart]

How much and how many times a day are you feeding?

 

[afartindolphin]

I'm having trouble keeping phosphates between .03 and .06 where they should be. At the same time I would like to keep my nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm but I can't seem to keep them even 1 ppm
I have mixed up or sodium nitrate solution and it seems to work very good but at the same time and I haven't checked it again yet but I believe raising the nitrates will also raise phosphates am I correct? Right now I can does sodium nitrate and bring my nitrates to where they need to be but I am afraid to do so because of the phosphates which were 1.7 ppm this morning only two days after using new media in the reactor
Back to the phosphates I can run phosphate and minus in my reactor and bring them down to zero but they won't stay they exhaust the phosphate minus real fast.
I have a refugium that just has Sea Lettuce in it And obviously works great for Nitrates but doesn't seem to touch phosphate. I will be breaking it up into four sections next week and using different types of algae to hopefully do a better job controlling phosphates.
I don't believe I am over feeding or doing anything different that would cause the phosphate to be out of control the only thing I can think of is that my RO/DI system wasn't working right. My DI resin was being used up real fast to keep the TDS at zero I tested the output for phosphates and found .05 ppm.
Anyways I have a new RO membrane coming along with carbon in sediment so that will be back in tiptop shape next week. And I have a call in hopefully next week I will be sure that they are not using Cloramine in my water anyways that problem will be taken care of.
So my original question still is if I raise nitrates to where I want them with sodium nitrate will that affect my phosphates and if so how to correct it thank you.
Phil

If you only dose Nitrate your phosphates will likely decrease. What's the reason you are wanting to change your levels?

 

[Spdjnky]

Not over feeding .
I want to try to keep my Nitrates around 5-10 ppm but that's not a set # just want to watch everything corals and see what they like. But I can't keep the nitrate up I have stopped running my skimmer for days and that didn't work Tried just running skimmer at night witch I think would be okay but that didn't help with nitrates so I dosed a mixture of sodium nitrate. It will work and I know how much to dose it but I could not figure out a way to do it every day. Then I started having phosphate problems and haven't got back to addressing the nitrates that stay right around zero.

 

[Spdjnky]

Wow ouch just checked my RO supply water it was .31 ppm Phosphates can I use distilled water for a few days tell my new RO membrane comes

 

[NY_Caveman]

Wow ouch just checked my RO supply water it was .31 ppm Phosphates can I use distilled water for a few days tell my new RO membrane comes

Yes. In the past I used distilled exclusively when it was my only real option.

 

[Spdjnky]

Yes. In the past I used distilled exclusively when it was my only real option.

Thx I was pretty sure but it's good to here for sure

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have mixed up or sodium nitrate solution and it seems to work very good but at the same time and I haven't checked it again yet but I believe raising the nitrates will also raise phosphates am I correct?

No, at least if the nitrate boost is done by adding nitrate only. It will have no direct effect on phosphate, and if the added nitrate spurs organism growth (corals, algae,e tc.) then phosphate may decline.

 

[Spdjnky]

No, at least if the nitrate boost is done by adding nitrate only. It will have no direct effect on phosphate, and if the added nitrate spurs organism growth (corals, algae,e tc.) then phosphate may decline.

Thanks Randy, now That I know my phosphates were coming mainly from my RO/DI They are at .1 ppm Right now I won't be able to do anything more until hopefully Wednesday I will have everything back good again as far as my RO/DI water quality. That being said how would you go about the nitrates and dosing sodium nitrate. I guess what I mean is on the nitrates where do you keep yours at and what would be the best way for me to go to get a consistent nitrate reading all the time.
On the phosphate issue does that come into play with coloration of a Aussie Tabling Acropora Coral? I have one that is approximately six weeks old now in my tank I mean it showing slight signs of coloration but it's still not looking like I would think it should meaning what it look like from the colony that it came from I don't have any experience with these And I'm still learning that's where the nitrates come in to I believe but then again I read pH may have something to do with it any help you could give me would be appreciated. Post a few new pictures in a little while when my lights come on any more information that is needed please let me know thank you

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks Randy, now That I know my phosphates were coming mainly from my RO/DI They are at .1 ppm Right now I won't be able to do anything more until hopefully Wednesday I will have everything back good again as far as my RO/DI water quality. That being said how would you go about the nitrates and dosing sodium nitrate. I guess what I mean is on the nitrates where do you keep yours at and what would be the best way for me to go to get a consistent nitrate reading all the time.
On the phosphate issue does that come into play with coloration of a Aussie Tabling Acropora Coral? I have one that is approximately six weeks old now in my tank I mean it showing slight signs of coloration but it's still not looking like I would think it should meaning what it look like from the colony that it came from I don't have any experience with these And I'm still learning that's where the nitrates come in to I believe but then again I read pH may have something to do with it any help you could give me would be appreciated. Post a few new pictures in a little while when my lights come on any more information that is needed please let me know thank you

FWIW, I would not conclude they are "mostly" coming from the Ro/DI. Foods are still a much bigger source, even for you. If the RO/DI is 0.1 ppm phospahte and you top off 1% daily,t aht's only boosting phosphate by 0.001 ppm per day. Foods are adding much more , unless you are actually not feeding.

I discuss that issue here:

Https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

Comparison of Food Sources of Phosphate to Other Sources
What about other sources of phosphate, like the "crappy" RO/DI water containing 0.05 ppm phosphate? A similar analysis will show it equally unimportant relative to foods.

Let's assume that the aquarist in question adds 1% of the total tank volume each day with RO/DI to replace evaporation. Simple math shows that the 0.05 ppm in the RO/DI becomes 0.0005 ppm added each day to the phosphate concentration in the aquarium. That dilution step is critical, taking a scary number like 0.05 ppm down to an almost meaningless 0.0005 ppm daily addition. Since that 0.0005 ppm is 40-600 times lower than the amount added each day in foods (Table 4), it does not seem worthy of the angst many aquarists put on such measurements. That said, tap water could have as much as 5 ppm phosphate, and that value could then become a dominating source of phosphate and would be quite problematic. Purifying tap water is important for this and many other reasons.

 

[Spdjnky]

These are the latest pictures Kinda hard to tell from the pictures but it definitely still got a ways to go as far as coloration and it's been six weeks

 

[Spdjnky]

FWIW, I would not conclude they are "mostly" coming from the Ro/DI. Foods are still a much bigger source, even for you. If the RO/DI is 0.1 ppm phospahte and you top off 1% daily,t aht's only boosting phosphate by 0.001 ppm per day. Foods are adding much more , unless you are actually not feeding.

I discuss that issue here:

Https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

Comparison of Food Sources of Phosphate to Other Sources
What about other sources of phosphate, like the "crappy" RO/DI water containing 0.05 ppm phosphate? A similar analysis will show it equally unimportant relative to foods.

Let's assume that the aquarist in question adds 1% of the total tank volume each day with RO/DI to replace evaporation. Simple math shows that the 0.05 ppm in the RO/DI becomes 0.0005 ppm added each day to the phosphate concentration in the aquarium. That dilution step is critical, taking a scary number like 0.05 ppm down to an almost meaningless 0.0005 ppm daily addition. Since that 0.0005 ppm is 40-600 times lower than the amount added each day in foods (Table 4), it does not seem worthy of the angst many aquarists put on such measurements. That said, tap water could have as much as 5 ppm phosphate, and that value could then become a dominating source of phosphate and would be quite problematic. Purifying tap water is important for this and many other reasons.

Okay I am going to read your artical and work on understanding. Right now I'm using distilled water for my ato top off so no phosphates extra right now in ato. But food and feeding as far as adding phosphates that way I can see that. In fact that is another thing that I need to learn is foods and feeding the right type so I don't add extra .......po4 I'm trying to learn thx

 

[Spdjnky]

Oh but I have to say in my defense that I wasn't having any phosphate problems before my ro water was off. After I put the new filters in my RO/DI unit should I think about having that output checked? Would that be an ICP test or where would u send it. That being said do u have any opinions on witch one of the testing Facilities to use?

 

[Spdjnky]

No, at least if the nitrate boost is done by adding nitrate only. It will have no direct effect on phosphate, and if the added nitrate spurs organism growth (corals, algae,e tc.) then phosphate may decline.

Thanks again Randy I just read your article on phosphate And food very interesting as much as I can understand but I do see where you're coming from as far as myself trying to blame it all on my ro/di.
Now that I know where my phosphates are and what to do about them I am still trying to decide about raising the nitrates that stage zero or less than 1 ppm all the time. Here is what I came up with and it works good for my system.Mixed 84 grams with 64 oz This should give me .1 ppm nitrate to 1 ml of mix. Forgot the .84 correction tested at 3 today should be 5 tomorrow these were my notes on 10/13 but it works right. That's as far as I got and now I have stoped because of the phosphates.
Now I think I have the phosphate issue figured out and should be good with that when I get my water filtrate and system everything out and I need to get back to the nitrates again. I'm doing the best I can and if you're confused I don't blame you because I am too thanks for any help you can give me or you have given me.
Phil

 

[eamike261]

Go Bills!

 

[Spdjnky]

Yeah we get our quarterback back this week

 

[jantje]

I use fauna Marin Ultra PHOS 0,04 a novel compound granules, which phosphates safely removed from the aquarium cycle.
The unique feature is the safe use of UltraPHOS004, since the PO4-value can not fall to 0.00.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I'm having trouble keeping phosphates between .03 and .06 where they should be. At the same time I would like to keep my nitrates between 5 and 10 ppm but I can't seem to keep them even 1 ppm
I have mixed up or sodium nitrate solution and it seems to work very good but at the same time and I haven't checked it again yet but I believe raising the nitrates will also raise phosphates am I correct? Right now I can does sodium nitrate and bring my nitrates to where they need to be but I am afraid to do so because of the phosphates which were 1.7 ppm this morning only two days after using new media in the reactor
Back to the phosphates I can run phosphate and minus in my reactor and bring them down to zero but they won't stay they exhaust the phosphate minus real fast.
I have a refugium that just has Sea Lettuce in it And obviously works great for Nitrates but doesn't seem to touch phosphate. I will be breaking it up into four sections next week and using different types of algae to hopefully do a better job controlling phosphates.
I don't believe I am over feeding or doing anything different that would cause the phosphate to be out of control the only thing I can think of is that my RO/DI system wasn't working right. My DI resin was being used up real fast to keep the TDS at zero I tested the output for phosphates and found .05 ppm.
Anyways I have a new RO membrane coming along with carbon in sediment so that will be back in tiptop shape next week. And I have a call in hopefully next week I will be sure that they are not using Cloramine in my water anyways that problem will be taken care of.
So my original question still is if I raise nitrates to where I want them with sodium nitrate will that affect my phosphates and if so how to correct it thank you.
Phil

I'm wondering if the variation in your Po4 is just the variation in your measuring method ?