Nitrates vs. Me

Treefer32 · Feb 10, 2022

Hanna High Range Nitrate tester. I used to use the red sea pro testers with the color solution. I could never distinguish the shade of red. All I could tell was nitrates were over 10 with those... My concern is not so much the number (I know there's always a degree of error), but that the number trends up every month is frustrating. At some point it will be toxic and I don't want to find out when. . . .Heh.

BostonReefer300 · Feb 10, 2022

Do you have a lot of coral? What is your standard water change protocol/timing?

Dan_P · Feb 10, 2022

Treefer32 said:
I continue my eternal battle with nitrates. . . My phosphates are routinely under .1 on a regular basis. Anywhere from .05 to .1.

My export mechanisms:
1. Algae turf scrubber

Running lights 24 / 7

Letting screen fill in 3dimensional algae growth

Enough hair algae the size of a soccer ball after 10-12 days of growth

2. Large Bubble magus auto roller mat

Fills in with brown stuff a roll lasts around 3-4 weeks.

3. Oversized Diablo Skimmer with DC pump at max

Pulls out 8-16 oz of solid black crud every 7-10 days depending how wet I have it set

4. 25 micron Nu-Clear cannister filter (just added 1000 ml of purigen to the cannister filter)

I thoroughly spray with garden sprayer every 3 weeks and let soak in bleach water 2-3 weeks while the other clean cartridge is on. Then soak in RODI and Prime to eliminate chlorine.

5. I just upped my vodka dosing from 27 ml to 33 ml starting today per day.

I have a 340 gallon display with 75 gallon sump, 160lbs of Oolite sand and 160-180 lbs of rock. 4 year old tank established now with around 26-28 fish (I lost count). 4-5 of the fish are easily 8-10" in size now. (everything from thick huge Caribbean Blue tang to my long Eel like Wrasse that picks up everything not nailed down... )

I probably have a couple fish that are too large for my tank. At the same time they're pretty and fat and healthy fish!

My PH is remaining stable at 8.1 at night and around 8.2 during the day. With increased vodka dosing my alk consumption is going through the roof. I haven't added any coral. What I have is growing rapidly. I've increased my alk dosing from 10 ml an hour to around 14 ml an hour. And it's still staying around 7.7 dkh. I've gotten new reagent to verify my alk tester is correct. And it came up with the exact same reading with new reagent vs. my two month old reagent. I used to maintain 9-10 dkh with the dosing levels I was at. I've increased alk dosing by 50% and still can't keep up.

So, I'm trying to understand what's going on? Calcium tests show 425 with my last test. I used to be over 500 (6 months ago), so calcium is being consumed more rapidly as well. Magnesium is remaining stable at 1500.

Salinity remaining stable at 1.025 - 1.026. I'm dosing magnesium chloride with magnesium sulfite to get the sulfites in the water. I'm dosing trace elements from Red Sea as well.

I've run this tank for 4 years and been in the industry for well over 20. I'm stumped now. I'm o.k. with my nitrates 20-30. I'm probably not o.k. with them climbing to 40-60ppm.

I've added 1000ml of purigen to my cannister filter to see if that helps the nitrates. I'll need to give that 2-3 weeks to populate with bacteria before I do anything else.

Do I continue to increase vodka dosing?

I'm looking at the Brightwell bio bricks. Do I get one of those and place in the sump under my ATS to see if that helps with nitrates? I don't want them to bottom out either. Just trying to think of a long term plan to manage vs. a short term solution. Purigen, though it can be recharged with a simple bleach soak is not a long term solution in my opinion. I don't want to run a reactor. More expensive equipment to have room and plumbing for. . . .

There is quite a bit of information here, so, I might not be getting the right idea.

It seems like you would be totally happy if the nitrate concentration came down to around 10 ppm and you are looking for options that don’t involve more equipment. Am I getting close?

GARRIGA · Feb 10, 2022

NoPox works for me but all to well. Tends to bottom my nitrates out. Sometimes I need to supplement my phosphates to accomplish this even though I feed three times per day. I do have a large biological filter which tends to keep my nitrates under 5 ppm but if I increase the flow they have gone up to 40 and NoPox the quickest solution so far. I overdose as well and no longer get a bacterial bloom.

mdb_talon · Feb 10, 2022

Siberwulf said:
Hold up... are you saying that dosing phyto actually dropped your nitrates? How does that work? Isn't it just bioload you're putting into the system?

Well i have not used any scientifically experiment to prove it, but I have no doubt that in my system at least yes dosing relatively high doses of live phyto does a tremendous job at reducing nitrates. I previously would have nitrates between 5-20. After phyto i have doubled the amount of my other feeding and still the only issue i have is nitrates bottoming out to zero. I dose manually every morning and if i go out of town for several days i find my nitrates are creeping back up so again that reinforces my belief it is the phyto. My experience is far from unique there are many threads/articles of people with similar experiences.

In addition to phyto helping with nitrates i personally think it is one of the better foods. Some coral may directly consume it, many others may consume the massive pod explosion it helps support.

This is also why i rarely use any mechanical filtration like socks or floss. One i dont need it and two i dont just want to trap all the phyto for it to die and return nutrients to the tank.

Treefer32 · Feb 11, 2022

Well, I think a few things I'm going to do as a result. I don't want to make too many changes, but I need to see progress as well. So, it's a fine line.

1. I'm going to wait to see if adding the purigen (I had it on hand, just hadn't cleaned it from the last time I used it a year or two ago.) will start dropping nitrates by bacteria growing in / on the media.

2. I'll maintain my current dosing of vodka for another 2 weeks. Until 2/25. To see if they start dropping at all.

3. I'm going to adjust my skimmer water level and gate valve to try to increase my skimmate production without causing it to fill up too fast. A container of skimmate a day may keep the nitrate doctor away?

4. I may add in a feeding of reef roids once or twice a week to boost phosphate levels slightly to help the bacteria consume nitrates.

Minor changes at most, and just monitor week to week to see if they stabilize or continue rising.

My goal isn't to rapidly crash the nitrates.... Unless corals start bleaching, then I've failed.

Ben FL · Feb 11, 2022

Hi,
Up your turn-over, replace Vodka by NO3PO4X, and up water movement

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 11, 2022

Treefer32 said:
Well, I think a few things I'm going to do as a result. I don't want to make too many changes, but I need to see progress as well. So, it's a fine line.

1. I'm going to wait to see if adding the purigen (I had it on hand, just hadn't cleaned it from the last time I used it a year or two ago.) will start dropping nitrates by bacteria growing in / on the media.

Are you sure you are talking about Purigen? I asked earlier and didn't see a response.

It is not a bacterial substrate. It is an organic matter binding polymer.

Any effect it has on nitrate is indirect and future-looking since it binds organics before they break down to nitrate.

Treefer32 · Feb 12, 2022

@Randy Holmes-Farley
That

Purigen Filter Media

Purigen is a uniquely engineered synthetic adsorbent media that can dramatically improve water quality, reducing organic wastes, colors, and odors in a very short time. This premium media works similarly to high-end activated carbons, utilizing extremely tiny pores throughout the polymer...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

It says it removes organic compounds that break down into nitrates before they break down. I don't know. It operates similarly to carbon, just more effective? So, maybe not a denitration substrate but, removes nitrates supposedly?

Treefer32 · Feb 14, 2022

Well, tested Nitrates 37.7. They're continuing to clime just 3 days ago they tested at 32. Hana HR Nitrate checker.

I had a purple monti just cascade start bleaching. It's huge. The inner most parts of it are still full color. So, I think it'll recover (maybe) the rest of it is bleaching. Tangs are eating it's dying flesh.

I have 1 acropora that is bleaching. All others are great. What's odd, is the same species of the acropora I had fragged a couple weeks ago, it was growing on my frag rack the same as the main colony. Both the frag and the original are bleaching in the same way. .. . Started with the tips turning white then cascading down to the rest.

Alk is 8.7, ph 8.1 - 8.24, nitrates now 37.7 (were 32). Calcium 425, mg 1500-1520.

Up to 35 ml of vodka per day. The water and rocks are the cleanest they've ever looked. I don't know what else to do, other than to give in to doing a 140 gallon water change every 2 weeks (45% water change). Which, I feel is excessive just to control nitrates. Phosphates probably bottomed out. I'm waiting on new reagent to test.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 14, 2022

Treefer32 said:
@Randy Holmes-Farley
That

Purigen Filter Media

Purigen is a uniquely engineered synthetic adsorbent media that can dramatically improve water quality, reducing organic wastes, colors, and odors in a very short time. This premium media works similarly to high-end activated carbons, utilizing extremely tiny pores throughout the polymer...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

It says it removes organic compounds that break down into nitrates before they break down. I don't know. It operates similarly to carbon, just more effective? So, maybe not a denitration substrate but, removes nitrates supposedly?