Nitrates

[Desgada]

So, I have had my tank set up for about a week. We used all the water, sand , and rock that was in it before we purchased it. Also, used some good water to top it off. I cannot seem to get the nitrates to drop, sitting at 40ppm.

I have heard using a filter instead of a sump is like a nitrate factory, but regardless of how many times I clean it out the nitrates stay the same. I plan on building my own sump, but don't have the money atm.

Do you'll have any ideas on how I can drop the nitrates? Is it just patience since we mixed up all the sand during the move? Any help would he great. Also, what are the dangers inherent in high nitrates?

Thanks

 

[redfishbluefish]

By using old sand....especially if it's an older tank....you've stirred up that sand and put all that detritus back into the water column. At this point, since it's a new tank, massive water changes.

 

[NickNiz]

I agree with @redfishbluefish . Taking apart an older tank, even if it was kept in pristine condition, will cause nitrates due to the waste in the sand and under the rock. It's something unavoidable when dismantling tanks that have been set up for a while. All I can recommend are large water changes, and siphon the sand as well to remove waste... I'd start with ~30% and then do slightly smaller WCs every few days until Nitrates have stabilized...

Clowns are pretty hardy, and can typically withstand nitrates of 50-60ppm, but even 40 will make them uncomfortable and can have more severe consequences for your other live stock... When doing water changes, try to keep the new saltwater at room temp, and try not to cause any salinity change. I've had cleaner shrimp die the same day as a water changes because I did 40% and it was a few degrees colder than room temp...

 

[Desgada]

So, when I do the water changes I should let it warm to room temperature before adding it in. Awesome thank you, I know that might seem obvious but I tend to overlook small things like that.

Would it be better to do smaller 10 to 15% daily, or the full 30 to 40% every few days.

 

[NickNiz]

I feel like 10-15% would be a lot less efficient at removing nitrate than larger water changes, but on the other hand your tank inhabitants would be less stressed.

If you're looking to save some $$$ in the long run, mix your own salt water... If you have coral, Red Sea Coral Pro salt is my go to. If not, reef crystals or a cheaper alternative should be fine. And pick up a hydrometer or refractometer. I personally use a hydrometer because they are several times cheaper and don't require calibration... And can be just as accurate as a refractometer if you get all of the air bubbles and old salt out.

 

[NickNiz]

I feel like a larger water change with complete sand siphoning would work for the first water change, and then later water changes could be smaller and you'd only have to switch out the water.

 

[Desgada]

I actually got a refractometer with my tank, and my salinity has been on point. All my parameters are good except nitrates, do copepods in my sump help with nitrates at all. Also, would adding a carbon media to my filter help?

Thank you all again for the feedback, this forum is amazing. Feel like I have to joined an awesome club.

 

[Desgada]

Also, how do I siphon sand without pulling ng the sand out. I have a mixed substrate ranging from extremely find sand to what looks like shell and coral fragments. My sand bed is pretty thick as well, may pull some of it out eventually. Talking over 3 inches in some areas.

 

[NickNiz]

Typically the waste in the sand is lighter than the sand itself. When siphoning the sand, crimp or pinch the tube when the sand gets close to the top of the pipe. This stops/slows suction, allowing the waste to be siphoned and the sand to fall back into place. It's hard to not siphon any sand. But given how much you have, you've got a lot of room to practice siphoning.

EDIT: look on YouTube to find a tutorial if you're having trouble.

 

[NickNiz]

I actually got a refractometer with my tank, and my salinity has been on point. All my parameters are good except nitrates, do copepods in my sump help with nitrates at all. Also, would adding a carbon media to my filter help?

Thank you all again for the feedback, this forum is amazing. Feel like I have to joined an awesome club.

Copepods can be considered a part of your clean up crew, but they don't necessarily lower nitrates. They still poop. It's like a starfish or snail. If you have a refugium in your sump, you could add some macroalgae such as chaeto, and maybe some miracle mud. This won't solve your nitrate issue, but it will help keeping them down in the future.

And nitrates aren't completely bad either. If you ever put LPS in the tank, they actually thrive on nitrate (<10ppm)

 

[Desgada]

Great, thank you for all the help.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I actually got a refractometer with my tank, and my salinity has been on point. All my parameters are good except nitrates, do copepods in my sump help with nitrates at all. Also, would adding a carbon media to my filter help?.

No on the copepods (they may actually raise it a tiny amount just as other nonphotosynthetic organisms may).

The effect of GAC on nitrate by binding organics before they degrade to release inorganic N and P is small.

 

[Myka]

I agree that the sand is probably the culprit, and that you should not have reused it. If it was my tank, or I was in charge of looking after it, I would remove the sand and replace it with new sand because the is the simplest, fastest, and easiest option. Another option (the cheapest effective option) would be to remove the sand, rinse it VERY well, bleach it to oxidize and remove the organics trapped (important step!), rinse it again, dry it out real good, and then replace it back into the tank several weeks down the road once you have the nitrate in the tank lower. Multiple big water changes will flush the nitrate out too, but that takes more effort than siphoning the sand out, and salt isn't free.

 

[jeff williams]

So, I have had my tank set up for about a week. We used all the water, sand , and rock that was in it before we purchased it. Also, used some good water to top it off. I cannot seem to get the nitrates to drop, sitting at 40ppm.

I have heard using a filter instead of a sump is like a nitrate factory, but regardless of how many times I clean it out the nitrates stay the same. I plan on building my own sump, but don't have the money atm.

Do you'll have any ideas on how I can drop the nitrates? Is it just patience since we mixed up all the sand during the move? Any help would he great. Also, what are the dangers inherent in high nitrates?

Thanks

The one thing no one mentioned is that you reused the water that was in the tank and then added some good water what does that mean? The person you goth The tank from was they using tap water and the good water you added was it tap water ? If so that's probably your problem tap water in the pokey area is around 40 ppm nitrate

 

[Desgada]

Yeah, it was tap in both cases. That would explain the issue, so even if I continue with my water changes, the nitrates will stay high. Is there anything I can add to my water to make it less.....nitratey. I can't afford to but water every time I do a water change.

 

[Desgada]

Also, I plan on getting an ro/di in the future will that help the issue.

 

[Paullawr]

Also, I plan on getting an ro/di in the future will that help the issue.

Ro / do will help as you will be replacing with zero to very low levels of nitrate.

One thing to consider is that water changes alone are a poor way to remove nitrate from water. Think of it this way.

If you tank was just 10 litres at 40ppm nitrate. You change 10% total volume, the nitrate would be reduced to 36ppm. That's if nothing else is adding to it in decaying compounds.

There's a number of ways you can reduce it. I won't go in to detail but will list the more commonly used approaches.

1) change out the sand. Do it in stages. Say 25% at a time.
2) change rocks out over time.
3) use ro/di water.
4) bio pellets. There are some pellets that are designed to be used in canister filters rather than reactors. Just put them in a filter bag and start with small amount (then work up). Will take about 4 weeks for them to work correctly.
5) use another probiotic additive. Ie prodibo, macrobacter 7, aquaforest no.
6) use salt with added probiotic. Such as tmc or aquaforest. (Check make they both do salts but not all are probiotic. It will state a d sadly cost more).
Use refugium to grow algae, mangroves. Use miracle muds or DSB to help reduce further and help provide nutrients and trace elements to the algae / mangrove.
7) Add a an algae reactor.
8) Make a nitrate coil with lengths of thin tube.
9) use a sulphur reactor.
10) create low oxygen zones in cryptic areas of tank/rock work.

Lastly....You want some nitrate if planning on corals just keep it below 10ppm but greater than 2ppm as a starting point.

 

[jeff williams]

When you det an Ro unit make sure it's also di the nitrate is removed at the di stage there's many more advantages to Rodi water besides just nitrate removal so I would strongly suggest this be your next purchase before adding a bunch of other systems to remove nitrate. The problem with adding all these reactors of other equipment is the cost and maintenance there not a plug it in and forget about it they require more pellets adding more product daily or weekly and then after all your hard work you go and add nitrate right back to the system with tap water marine depot has a great entry level Rodi system for under 200$ so does BRS hope this helps

 

[Paullawr]

When you det an Ro unit make sure it's also di the nitrate is removed at the di stage there's many more advantages to Rodi water besides just nitrate removal so I would strongly suggest this be your next purchase before adding a bunch of other systems to remove nitrate. The problem with adding all these reactors of other equipment is the cost and maintenance there not a plug it in and forget about it they require more pellets adding more product daily or weekly and then after all your hard work you go and add nitrate right back to the system with tap water marine depot has a great entry level Rodi system for under 200$ so does BRS hope this helps

Agree ro/di water should be used. Still i don't think we should be putting someone off with other nutrient removal systems.

Most aren't that expensive. The op already owns a canister filter. Adding a small batch of NP-reducing BioPellets to the canister filter is a bit of a no brainer when dealing with excessive nutrients due to old tank syndrome effects.

You mention adding extra pellets.etc. well yes that's true, we do have to add extra pellets as they are consumed but in reality they last many many months. A packet would likely last a couple of years and adding to them once every few months, usually much longer isn't much of onerous task.

The op will need to make major changes, sand rock and ro/di. A little help won't hurt from something like pellets. They are cheap enough.

 

[jeff williams]

Agree ro/di water should be used. Still i don't think we should be putting someone off with other nutrient removal systems.

Most aren't that expensive. The op already owns a canister filter. Adding a small batch of NP-reducing BioPellets to the canister filter is a bit of a no brainer when dealing with excessive nutrients due to old tank syndrome effects.

You mention adding extra pellets.etc. well yes that's true, we do have to add extra pellets as they are consumed but in reality they last many many months. A packet would likely last a couple of years and adding to them once every few months, usually much longer isn't much of onerous task.

The op will need to make major changes, sand rock and ro/di. A little help won't hurt from something like pellets. They are cheap enough.

Not get off subject but you mention np pellets in a canister filter I was under the assumption these pellets have to slowly fluidize or they turn black and cause other problems is that not so?