Nitrogen management by using elemental sulfur. The application of BADES.

[Lasse]

Funny facts - macroalgae will take up very much N. the N/P ration can be over 80 - therefore macro algae is very effective to remove N compared with the removal rate of P.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Funny facts - macroalgae will take up much very N. the N/P ration can be over 80 - therefore macro algae is very effective to remove N compared with the removal rate of P.

Sincerely Lasse

The facts are they also may leak a lot of the nitrogen back into the system as ammonia.
Some are more efficient and more suitable than others to be used in biofilters or and as a food source, important if one may bring all back into the food chain. Info present on a Dutch website, updated by myself and CMF De Haes.
And one may cultivate all kinds of fhyto- and Zooplankton in such a refuge, also bio-floc, which then can be harvested and or used. Sorry for the links, but about using F2 media in a refuge and the use of biofloc, I had no other choice.

Managing is about being able to have control.
Managing the nitrogen content and ammonia, the carrying capacity, is not considered to be a problem if making good use of BADES , such a refuge can always be used to fine-tune the nutrient reserves. To do this, we feed modified F2 media to the refuge.

 

[Lasse]

They also may leak a lot of the nitrogen back into the system as ammonia.

Explain this - how can they leak ammonia - their prefered inorganic nitrogen source for growth?. Explain the pathways for this. They are not heterotrophic at all. And do not link to any other website - explain with your own words!

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Belgian Anthias]

M

Explain this - how can they leak ammonia - their prefered inorganic nitrogen source for growth?. Explain the pathways for this. They are not heterotrophic at all. And do not link to any other website - explain with your own words!

Sincerely Lasse

Is this about heterotrophy?

Most micro-organisms prefer ammonia as a nitrogen source, but as they are relatively slow growers most Photo-autotrophs are very effective in reducing nitrate.
Most photo-autotrophs leak a lot of ammonia into the environment. The use of nitrate needs a lot more energy, 1,5x the energy needed as when ammonium-nitrogen is used to produce protein. Being photo-autotrophic the energy needed is delivered for free in the form of photons. They transform the nitrate-nitrogen into usable ammonia-nitrogen in the cells but they overdo it and leak ammonia into the environment. Most micro-organisms leak ammonia.
As this threat is about BADES I will not go any further on this, the answer was given in the provided links. Probably there are a lot of treats about algae and biofilters on R2R with proper references explaining how it works. if not, all info can be found in Makazi Baharini wiki.

 

[Lasse]

This is one of the most surprising claims you have done - and IMO - it is total wrong and - please provide a scientific link of an investigation showing that. You mean that an organism put in extra energy in form of enzymes and/or pH controlling of the microenvironment around the organism in order to convert NO3 into NH4/NH3. After that - it just discharge the wanted compound out into the water ? This is against some of the natures most important laws - conservation of energy and the cost/benefit principle. And if some cells should leak NH3/NH4 - nearby macroalgae cells would take it up instantly because NH3/NH4 is the preferable N source for most phototrophs. The N/P ratio in macroalgaes (up to 80/1) is much, much higher than the same ratio in your fish food (can be as low as 4/1). However do you feed with macroalgae - depended on type - you may come up to these ratios - that´s one of the reasons why feeding Nori can help when inorganic N (mostly NO3) is limited. An aquarium is a closed system and it is input, output and biomass grow that is important. For input of N - food and in some circumstances N-fixation by cyanobacteria (and other fixation organisms) is the only way into the system for N.

IMO - a macroalgae driven refugium and a dense coral (corals with zooxanthellae) population is an effective tool to control free N in the system - no need of denitrification of any sort.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Belgian Anthias]

IMO - a macroalgae driven refugium and a dense coral (corals with zooxanthellae) population is an effective tool to control free N in the system - no need of denitrification of any sort.

Sincerely Lasse

Please open your own treat about your issue as this has nothing to do with BADES

I claim nothing, and if it surprises you, well, I can not change what happens in nature.

I have always favored the use of biofilters, a refuge for nutrient management. And the use of modified F2 media to feed such bio-filters.

Managing is about having control. Not only over what is left over, also over what may be used.

You asked me to explain it in my own words. As I have contributed to added references I did.

Of course, we do not need a denitrification device! Measured nitrate is a safely stored nitrogen reserve . And denitrification does not support the carrying capacity of the system.

Why safely stored nitrogen must be removed?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Without denitrification, it will not work. The nitrogen cycle is not closed. Denitrification is essential. Denitrification takes place in any coral holobiont ( ref: Anthias 2019) and takes place everywhere in the aquarium. Not only in biofilms but also in the water column. A lot of heterotrophs are able to denitrify in normal aquarium conditions and to combine nitrification and denitrification within the cells, called SHNAD Sorry for the link as I have explained it before on R2R but this link was easier to find.
Why still so many questions can be found on this forum connected with nitrogen management and why" the problem" is kept alive?
Why so much reef aquaria never get mature, the aquarium is not able to grow and animals may not multiply although the carrying capacity can easily be controlled for many decades using a simple biofilter for active nitrogen management?

I thought it was common knowledge micro-organisms and algae may leak ammonia as they are an important source of ammonia for their micro-environment, essential in a closed life support system. As ammonia is used up fast, leaking ammonia provides continuity and availability for the community. Growth rates are nitrogen source and carbon source dependent. It is part of a good nitrogen household to know where safely stored nitrate-nitrogen not exported by denitrification is used for.
In an anoxic environment where heterotrophic denitrification takes place always also DNRA takes place, producing ammonia. As BADES reactors are not kept anoxic produced ammonia may still be used for aerobic growth and nitrification.

Some organisms do not have the enzymes and sensors to use both nitrate and or ammonia, different organisms may support each other in retrieving their nitrogen needed. Instead of ammonia also nitrites may be leaked. Most microorganisms inhibit the use of nitrate if ammonia is sensed; A lot of algae can use both the same time and leak ammonia and or nitrite, ready to be used by others. In a closed system, the balance is easily disturbed.

 

[Lasse]

You was - by your self - bringed in the nitrogen removal from macroalgae

For high nutrient systems, and using a skimmer, the unbalance between nitrogen and phosphate content may become too high, needing another solution and to export nitrogen only. For this BADES can be used.

A refuge based on macroalgae is a slow filter and will not provide the tools to manage the carrying capacity, the ammonium removal rate is too low. If modified F2 media is not used for managing the refuge, the nutrient unbalances between nitrogen and phosphate can not be corrected as everything will be removed in natural proportions.

This is - IMO - false - a refugium will by itself fix the imbalance between N and P because of the high N uptake rate. You must accept that people answer you if you bring up the subject by yourself.

I thought it was common knowledge micro-organisms

They do not leak - they mineralise organic N into inorganic NH3/NH4 - its a part of the breakdown process. That is known - however you put in algae in the equation and that´s not true if you do not include cyanobacteria as an algae. Cyanobacteria is an phototrophic bacteria and some of them is able to fixate N2 from air/water and release NH3/NH4 into the water - but they are bacteria - not algae and absolutely not macroalgae. All true algae and plants - do not leak ammonia as I know it. If you persist in that - please show an scientific article about it that show that true algae and especially macro algae leak NH3/NH4 into the water during normal conditions (not dying algae)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Sincerely Lasse

I moved the algae discussion to a new tread.