No alkalinity consumption in over a month

[danieyella]

So I've been dealing with some fun in my tank for awhile now.

Late June/early July my giant stunner crashed, we think bacterial infection - when I pulled it, it had a number of very stinky dead snails caught in its ruffles for who knows how long. I did some testing around the time it started going downhill and recall seeing my alk & calcium were raising (alk was at 10.8), so I significantly reduced the dosages on both, and continued to monitor. They seemed to stay stable at that point. I thought. I was having issues with my doser app and I still suspect this was part of the problem.

July 10 I tested because some corals were acting odd, alkalinity at 12.5. Yikes. I was hanging out around 8.5ish for the last year+ Calcium was still stable.

Turned off doser completely on July 10th. Started testing daily to watch trends. Nothing.

Did a few water changes, got it down to 11.3 (new water mixed to 8.5-8.7 range each time) by around July 15th-ish. At that point, I wanted to see what my consumption looked like so I started testing daily to observe. NOTHING.

I bought new reagents. Nothing different. Always 11.1-11.4 depending on time of day. Corals look fine. Mostly lps and softies. My encrusting monti continues to grow, my clam is fine.

I replaced carbon. I manually dosed calcium a couple times to keep it in the 450-460 range. I took someone's recommendation and dosed up to 480 to see if it would kickstart anything, nope. It's down to 470 now, there is some consumption but not a lot.

Magnesium has been holding just fine around 1350-1360, my tank has never had heavy magnesium consumption though, I've always just dosed as needed.

I thought maybe my hanna checker is broken? Sent off an ati-icp, read alkalinity at 11.1 so, doubt that's the problem.

I don't know why my tank has stagnated and I have no idea what to do it fix it at this point. I haven't dosed alkalinity in over a month and I have no consumption whatsoever. Nothing is currently running on my doser, it's unplugged. Any additions have been manual.

Nitrates and phosphates are definitely higher than what they used to be, they used to trend at around 10-11 and .5-1 respectively, around May my engineer goby started acting a fool and he hasn't settled down yet. Since he's in constant sand stir mode - I see about 50 and 4.5 consistently. Not sure if that's relevant. Do run an ats and filter roller though to help control it. Vacuum the sump out specifically at least once a month.

Sorry if this is more info than needed, just trying to cover all my bases.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Phosphates .5 to 1 ppm or .05 to .1 ppm? Some will differ but... Growth can slow when phosphates are above 0.1 ppm. No growth = No consumption. Some of that growth, and much of the consumption, may have been occurring in coralline. If it has slowed or stopped, you might notice a big drop.

 

[danieyella]

The first, for years with no issues. So I don't think that the .5 to 1 was the problem. It's very possible that the higher amount I'm seeing now could contribute - but as I stated before I do see growth still.

Coralline is growing, has always been growing. The only reason it doesn't overrun my tank is because of the urchin constantly chewing it away. In fact, if anything I feel like I see more of it now than I was previously.

None of this makes any sense.

 

[A Young Reefer]

Could there be some sort of build up in your sand bed that is slowly leaching to your water column? I saw people with rock hard substrate that were going through similar issues. What did you use to raise calcium?

 

[A Young Reefer]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Very interested to see what the great minds here think. This has been stumping me for a month.

 

[danieyella]

Could there be some sort of build up in your sand bed that is slowly leaching to your water column? I saw people with rock hard substrate that were going through similar issues. What did you use to raise calcium?

Not sure on the first question, I have an abusive fully grown engineer goby though so I don't think any portions of my sand could be considered rock hard. He's going non-stop all the time.

I use the brs calcium chloride to raise calcium.

I am still seeing calcium consumption, not a lot though. And I'm still seeing growth in the tank as well, not at the rate I was. Any dosing at this point is manually after testing - I haven't set the machine back up with everything in the air like this.

Working on addressing the elevated phos/nitrates that started up in May in case that is a big contributor as well.

 

[danieyella]

Oh I'll add, I did comb through the tank this week as well and pull any dislodged frag skeletons I could find buried in the sand, just in case.

 

[Dburr1014]

Nitrates and phosphates are definitely higher than what they used to be, they used to trend at around 10-11 and .5-1 respectively, around May my engineer goby started acting a fool and he hasn't settled down yet. Since he's in constant sand stir mode - I see about 50 and 4.5 consistently.

Is your decimal point in the right place?
0.5 po4 is high and now 4.5??

I didn't see how big your tank was and what else is in it for consumers.
Can you post that information?
Mag sounds normal, it doesn't go down quick at all.

 

[dwest]

These are tough problems. I’m dealing with something in my tank right now after a long period of smooth sailing. I’ll tell you what I would check.

Since alkalinity is high, is there a way that your salinity is high as well? Although your ATI ICP should verify your salinity.

How are you measuring phosphate? 4.5 ppm phosphates seems very high to me if that’s what you are getting.

I would triple check all pumps and heaters for possible metal contamination. Again, your ICP testing should have clued you in, so I’m guessing this isn’t the problem.

I would make sure my RODI unit is providing zero TDS water with a hand held TDS probe.

Lastly, there has been a couple threads about a salt brand possibly causing problems. I would read those to see if they are applicabl.

 

[danieyella]

Is your decimal point in the right place?
0.5 po4 is high and now 4.5??

I didn't see how big your tank was and what else is in it for consumers.
Can you post that information?
Mag sounds normal, it doesn't go down quick at all.

Yep it is, big spike. From icp test.

It's about 115g and at this point mostly softies & lps - not heavy consumers. A few montis, a decent chunk Stylo. I had a very large stunner in here that I lost to *we think* a bacterial infection from a snail that died in it's folds. This was my big consumer and what started this roller coaster - I think. It's just been a battle trying to lower it since then.

Edit. I also have a clam. He used to be a big consumer but while on vacation once my urchin knocked his hammock from it's high location and he scooted and anchored in lower in the main rockwork so growth slowed down with lower light (I assume)

 

[danieyella]

These are tough problems. I’m dealing with something in my tank right now after a long period of smooth sailing. I’ll tell you what I would check.

Since alkalinity is high, is there a way that your salinity is high as well? Although your ATI ICP should verify your salinity.

How are you measuring phosphate? 4.5 ppm phosphates seems very high to me if that’s what you are getting.

I would triple check all pumps and heaters for possible metal contamination. Again, your ICP testing should have clued you in, so I’m guessing this isn’t the problem.

I would make sure my RODI unit is providing zero TDS water with a hand held TDS probe.

Lastly, there has been a couple threads about a salt brand possibly causing problems. I would read those to see if they are applicabl.

Sorry I answered part of this in the last response but not all. I've checked via icp and refractometer and salinity is on point, that was my first thing I checked at home - even recalibrated the refractometer and everything to make sure lol.

Pulling phosphate numbers from the icp test, I figured that was reliable enough? I have a hanna but do need to re-up on reagents to check with that.

Part of the reason for the most recent icp was to check metals and nothing stood out. Silicates are a lot higher in the tank, but the rodi was 0 still in that same reading. My at home one reads 0 as well, but I wasn't sure I could trust it still initially.

I'll look into the salt....

 

[fishguy242]

one more time PO4 is 4.5 ?

 

[A Young Reefer]

Sorry I answered part of this in the last response but not all. I've checked via icp and refractometer and salinity is on point, that was my first thing I checked at home - even recalibrated the refractometer and everything to make sure lol.

Pulling phosphate numbers from the icp test, I figured that was reliable enough? I have a hanna but do need to re-up on reagents to check with that.

Part of the reason for the most recent icp was to check metals and nothing stood out. Silicates are a lot higher in the tank, but the rodi was 0 still in that same reading. My at home one reads 0 as well, but I wasn't sure I could trust it still initially.

I'll look into the salt....

In my experience phosphate readings from icp tests are unreliable, they are always higher than they normally are. I think they get altered through shipping.
I experienced something similar:

Triton says high nutrients, test kits and lfs say otherwise?

So I have sent an ICP-OES and an N-DOC analysis test a few days ago, and on the same day I have tested everything and so did my lfs. Both showed phosphates of 0.03 (hannah) and 0 nitrates (not the best thing Ik) (salifert). Today I have received my results and it showed that I have elevated...

www.reef2reef.com

without going off topic I wouldn’t relate high nutrients to low alk consumption, however I would relate low nutrients to low alk consumption.

 

[danieyella]

In my experience phosphate readings from icp tests are unreliable, they are always higher than they normally are. I think they get altered through shipping.
I experienced something similar:

Triton says high nutrients, test kits and lfs say otherwise?

So I have sent an ICP-OES and an N-DOC analysis test a few days ago, and on the same day I have tested everything and so did my lfs. Both showed phosphates of 0.03 (hannah) and 0 nitrates (not the best thing Ik) (salifert). Today I have received my results and it showed that I have elevated...

www.reef2reef.com

without going off topic I wouldn’t relate high nutrients to low alk consumption, however I would relate low nutrients to low alk consumption.

Hmm. Well, I don't think low nutrients is my issue by a long shot

 

[Miami Reef]

In my experience phosphate readings from icp tests are unreliable, they are always higher than they normally are. I think they get altered through shipping.
I experienced something similar:

Triton says high nutrients, test kits and lfs say otherwise?

So I have sent an ICP-OES and an N-DOC analysis test a few days ago, and on the same day I have tested everything and so did my lfs. Both showed phosphates of 0.03 (hannah) and 0 nitrates (not the best thing Ik) (salifert). Today I have received my results and it showed that I have elevated...

www.reef2reef.com

without going off topic I wouldn’t relate high nutrients to low alk consumption, however I would relate low nutrients to low alk consumption.

I agree. Phosphates are higher in ICP but that’s because it includes the organic phosphates that our test kits don’t include.

 

[A Young Reefer]

Just wanting to double check with someone calcium chloride does not raise alk right?

 

[danieyella]

Just wanting to double check with someone calcium chloride does not raise alk right?

I did a search on this as well and from what I was able to find, it should not. But I may have missed something. I believe one of the posts that settled it for me was from @Randy Holmes-Farley stating that calcium chloride was strictly calcium and wouldn't touch alk.

 

[Miami Reef]

Calcium chloride does not raise alk.

 

[Mystersynyster]

I did a search on this as well and from what I was able to find, it should not. But I may have missed something. I believe one of the posts that settled it for me was from @Randy Holmes-Farley stating that calcium chloride was strictly calcium and wouldn't touch alk.

I dose the same 2 part BRS calcium chloride, never affected my alk. Mag will affect alk but theirs seems fine. What is your ph