No love for MH?

[SMSREEF]

The problem is everything you don't agree with is negative. It's quite childish.

I don't even say MH is bad, yet you guys continue to talk like it's this light vs that.

It's been expressed to me multiple times that I am just a passing new person and that my opinion doesn't matter.

If it suits your narrative, lets say I don't even have a tank.

Your theories so far have been blown wide open by a guy without a fishtank. The only retort is some random picture of some random fishtank means you've really got nothing left to debate.

I'm available if you come up with something.

Don’t put me in “you guys” camp. I have LED. And and as someone with LED who has respect for halides (and t5’s) and those who use them, I suggest your theories are ridiculous at best , on one of your good posts...

Halides have their place and grow some great tanks.

Maybe you are just trolling everyone here anyway... you got me to bite, but no longer, peace out.

 

[Bpb]

Remember folks the same people that think that undata looked good are the same people that say you must use MH.

I believe I’m the only one who has commented on the undata.

I’d recommend you to back through the last 40-50 posts and find mine. I’d LOVE to hear where I specifically said the undata was good and also where I said anyone MUST use MH.

I said the undata looked normal and the photo was over exposed.

Nor have I once in this entire thread said people should use metal halide lighting. If you find something contrary to that I’ll gladly concede. But you’ll find no such post. I truthfully don’t care at all what others use and have seen plenty of radion lit tanks that absolutely smoke mine in growth and color. That has ALWAYS been my sentiment.

My argument in favor of metal halide lighting has always been that with careful shopping, metal halides are pretty much the cheapest lighting option, and the fact that it works well is a plus. Repeat after me. BPB doesn’t care what kind of lights people use. I shared a couple pictures of my corals, yes, just for fun.

 

[jda]

Looks like we have another message board hero judging tanks without showing anything of their own. If I have missed it, then my apologies. Say what you want about me, but I put it all out there and show why I have the opinion that I do.

 

[Lousybreed]

Any M/H fans out there using the Hamilton 250w DE 20k bulb?
I'm running 14k Phoenix bulbs and was thinking about trying the Hamiltons, or maybe best to stick with what I'm using?

I went back to the 14k due to growth and coloration. Thinking about adding more whites to my DT too. I have Radium 20k in my DT and I think they are a bit too blue.

 

[Lukas75]

Unfortunately the power consumption for par output combined with the heat (the lost energy) then having to remove that heat from the tank and my house driving the cost of running them up even more keeps me away at this point. That having been said no one can deny the results!

 

[jda]

Lukas - there is no efficiency in watt to PAR. Long standing myth long since debunked. If you are using a 100w LED panel, then 100w of MH would have about the same output... sometimes more depending on the actual LEDs being used. Tullio outlines this pretty well in his MACNA speeches and there are many non-LED manufacturer and hobbyists stuff that will say this too.

The heat can be real, though. It is a blessing here and even this month were we will get some 95-100 degree temps and a fan can keep everything from budging. I do totally understand that small spaces and different climates can matter a whole bunch. For me, my heaters would run, or these can run, so it is a push to me. Even in July, it gets into the 50s at night on a 99 degree day.

 

[shred5]

So these corals in the pic are not subject to blue, green light waves or UV?

We know some of the colors in SPS are proteins and pigments that protect the corals for UV or spectrum they do not like. The fact they have these pigments means they must be getting some.

Leds barely scratch UV.. True UV leds are out there but the prices are more than a light fixture at least last time I heard.

When I ran Iwasaki's and worked under it for a long time My arm would get a little red.

But this is why sps are different when we talk why they like halides better than other corals. most sps come from shallow water and are subjected to reds, greens, and UV.

Softies and sps generally come from deeper water and are subject to little or no reds, greens, or UV. This is why leds seem fine for them.

 

[oreo54]

Lukas - there is no efficiency in watt to PAR. Long standing myth long since debunked. If you are using a 100w LED panel, then 100w of MH would have about the same output... sometimes more depending on the actual LEDs being used. Tullio outlines this pretty well in his MACNA speeches and there are many non-LED manufacturer and hobbyists stuff that will say this too.

That really doesn't hold any water anymore..

Going to start here w/ arguably "the best " MH..

Spectral Analysis of MH Lamps:

ppf per watt is typically 2.25 for royal blue
https://www.lumileds.com/uploads/637/DS171-luxeon-sunplus-series-datasheet-pdf

best I can find for mh's would translate to 1.36...

add delivery efficiency and it get slanted even more to LED..

Above 350W 550ppf = 1.57

Now if you are referring to SPECIFIC fixtures (like lower efficiency BB's) THAT is another story..
Your "blanket" statement doesn't hold water..

 

[oreo54]

Something for everyone.. sort of..

Description. PPE is the ratio of the luminaire’s measured PPF to its power demand. It is analogous to luminaire efficacy (lumens per watt).

Background. Nelson and Bugbee19 tested a variety of HID, LED and fluorescent luminaires and published the PPE (μmol J-1) of each luminaire. In 2014, the most efficacious HPS luminaires had a PPE of 1.70 μmol J-1 (range: 0.94–1.70 μmol J-1) as did one of ten LED luminaires tested (range: 0.89–1.70 μmol J-1). In a recent U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) report,20 the “best-in-class” PPE is 2.5 μmol J-1 for LED luminaires available in 2017, and 2.1 μmol J-1 for double-ended HPS luminaires available in 2017.

https://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/energy/pdf/HorticulturalLightingReport-Final.pdf

 

[Silver14SS]

I have an ATI Powermodule - 36", 4 T5 bulb, 2 LED array. I thought I was completely satisfied with it, but after reading through this thread, I'm may consider some kind of MH hybrid.

My tank is 36" x 18" x 16" tall, only SPS. What MH fixtures should I look into?

 

[Bpb]

I have an ATI Powermodule - 36", 4 T5 bulb, 2 LED array. I thought I was completely satisfied with it, but after reading through this thread, I'm may consider some kind of MH hybrid.

My tank is 36" x 18" x 16" tall, only SPS. What MH fixtures should I look into?

From the aquarium hobby standpoint options are very limited on anything new. Hamilton is really the only player left on the board. Everything else you’ll have to find used or on close out sale till they’re all gone. However. In searching horticultural supply shops online for frag tank equipment, you can still find dozens and dozens of different types of mh pendants of all sizes honestly. There are a ton. And they’re all relatively similar to the aquarium specific ones (which I feel like are probably just rebranded horticultural stuff). On my frag setups I intend to use large horticultural pendants. They’re super cheap. Like 20-50 a piece brand new.

 

[vetteguy53081]

MH has become so much more energy efficient as the industry is aware of past issues (heat, energy consumption) and have corrected issues. It is still by far the most natural and effective light available and MANY wholesalers still use them and swear by them and even take their auction photos under MH.+

I have a large unit im selling and would have used it for my newest tank but did not want to hang is from ceiling as we are selling home in the next 2 years .

 

[TheGreatWave]

Don’t put me in “you guys” camp. I have LED. And and as someone with LED who has respect for halides (and t5’s) and those who use them, I suggest your theories are ridiculous at best , on one of your good posts...

Halides have their place and grow some great tanks.

Maybe you are just trolling everyone here anyway... you got me to bite, but no longer, peace out.

You directly addressed me, so how is it I am the one trolling you? When have I taken a position on a light source, I'm the one saying it doesn't matter nearly as much as you guys make it out to be. Shape and power you can attribute to me.

I'm simply pointing out the myths perpetrated with some easy research.

 

[shred5]

From the aquarium hobby standpoint options are very limited on anything new. Hamilton is really the only player left on the board. Everything else you’ll have to find used or on close out sale till they’re all gone. However. In searching horticultural supply shops online for frag tank equipment, you can still find dozens and dozens of different types of mh pendants of all sizes honestly. There are a ton. And they’re all relatively similar to the aquarium specific ones (which I feel like are probably just rebranded horticultural stuff). On my frag setups I intend to use large horticultural pendants. They’re super cheap. Like 20-50 a piece brand new.

I think Reefbrite still sells halides and hybrids...

 

[TheGreatWave]

Looks like we have another message board hero judging tanks without showing anything of their own. If I have missed it, then my apologies. Say what you want about me, but I put it all out there and show why I have the opinion that I do.

Yes you have pointed that out many many times.

It's funny how I picked apart your metal halide theories one at a time and you came back with nothing.

Why would I do anything for you?

Do you see the irony in your troll post calling someone a keyboard warrior, asking for pictures when you won't even engage in a civil debate?

 

[Silver14SS]

I think Reefbrite still sells halides and hybrids...

Thanks! Definitely not as sleek as the ATI but an option.
Any guesses how high off the water a 24" Giesemann Infinity would need to cover my whole tank?

 

[TheGreatWave]

Lukas - there is no efficiency in watt to PAR. Long standing myth long since debunked. If you are using a 100w LED panel, then 100w of MH would have about the same output... sometimes more depending on the actual LEDs being used. Tullio outlines this pretty well in his MACNA speeches and there are many non-LED manufacturer and hobbyists stuff that will say this too.

The heat can be real, though. It is a blessing here and even this month were we will get some 95-100 degree temps and a fan can keep everything from budging. I do totally understand that small spaces and different climates can matter a whole bunch. For me, my heaters would run, or these can run, so it is a push to me. Even in July, it gets into the 50s at night on a 99 degree day.

This is incorrect.

It was pointed out to you on the other page from Sanjay's papers that a specific 400watt had only 15% more PAR and less UV then a specific 250 watt bulb. Almost twice the wattage with only 15% more light.
Where is the extra energy going? We all know it's wasted heat but I thought it would be interesting to see what you come up with.

Now you are mis-quoting Tullio, he didn't say that in the speech we just watched. He said in "many cases". Vocabulary is very important.

He said
"In many cases the old watts per gallon still holds water" which is more aligned with my viewpoints then yours.

He does repeatedly say there is no best lighting and that "Whats best is based on application".

It's one thing to have a different viewpoint for whatever reason, be incorrect about something or even stubborn that's fine. However you really lose credibility when you lie to try and make a point.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Please everyone, keep the thread on topic. Off topic banter or arguing will be removed and potentially thread banned if its kept up. We definitely encourage healthy debate, so let's keep it fun, keep it happy, and keep it friendly.

Thanks everyone!

Crabs

 

[Bpb]

I think Reefbrite still sells halides and hybrids...

True. Forgot those.

 

[Bpb]

Thanks! Definitely not as sleek as the ATI but an option.
Any guesses how high off the water a 24" Giesemann Infinity would need to cover my whole tank?

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