No more loudwolf sodium nitrate?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 4, 2021

homer1475 said:
Suppose that could be an issue if your not doing water changes. With normal weekly/biweely water changes, that shouldn't be an issue?

Water changes won't prevent the accumulation.

If you add 2 ppm potassium daily and change 1% water daily (30% monthly), then at the end of a year, the potassium rises from 400 to 593 ppm.

areefer01 · Jul 11, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Reefers are starting to drain the supplies of uncommon chemicals. Sodium nitrate has been limited in the past due to potential to make explosives.

I would get food or reagent grade sodium nitrate. There are other sellers that have it, such as amazon. Potassium nitrate food grade is OK, but especially if you do not do water changes, I'd be careful.

Amazon has many brands of sodium phosphate, including Loudwolf.

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley - do we use the same nutrient from the pull down menu when using this new product on James's planted tank calculator? Nitrate from potassium nitrate I think was the choice. Maybe it was the only choice I guess.

I'm just about out of loudwolfs and going to use this since it is easy to get and I can get it tomorrow or the next day. Thanks, hope weekend is great!

Malcontent · Jul 11, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Water changes won't prevent the accumulation.

If you add 2 ppm potassium daily and change 1% water daily (30% monthly), then at the end of a year, the potassium rises from 400 to 593 ppm.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 12, 2021

areefer01 said:
Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley - do we use the same nutrient from the pull down menu when using this new product on James's planted tank calculator? Nitrate from potassium nitrate I think was the choice. Maybe it was the only choice I guess.

I'm just about out of loudwolfs and going to use this since it is easy to get and I can get it tomorrow or the next day. Thanks, hope weekend is great!

Yes, with any brand of sodium nitrate, use the potassium nitrate pull down. It is very close and if you want an overly "correct" answer, use 15% less since sodium nitrate is a little more potent.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 12, 2021

Malcontent said:

How does that graph for nitrate reduction (at least that's what the axis shows) relate to my statement about potassium accumulation?

Malcontent · Jul 12, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
How does that graph for nitrate reduction (at least that's what the axis shows) relate to my statement about potassium accumulation?

I used my nitrate accumulation spreadsheet but just entered a 400 ppm starting point (instead of 0 ppm), 1% daily water change, and 2 mg/L daily accumulation.

it actually works for just about anything. I can change the label if you want but I figured people here can use their imaginations.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 12, 2021

Malcontent said:
I used my nitrate accumulation spreadsheet but just entered a 400 ppm starting point (instead of 0 ppm), 1% daily water change, and 2 mg/L daily accumulation.

it actually works for just about anything. I can change the label if you want but I figured people here can use their imaginations.

OK, yes, one can make graphs like that (I have lots in my water change article), but it does not bear on my statement that you quoted above your graph that water changes will not prevent the accumulation of potassium when dosing potassium nitrate.

Malcontent · Jul 12, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
OK, yes, one can make graphs like that (I have lots in my water change article), but it does not bear on my statement that you quoted above your graph that water changes will not prevent the accumulation of potassium when dosing potassium nitrate.

Why is that? Is potassium not removed by water changes?

On day zero you start with 400 mg/L potassium.

You do a 1% water change and then have 396 mg/L then add 2 mg/L and end up with 398 mg/L. Now do that 364 more times.

Water change iteration	nitrate (mg/L)	nitrate level after WC (mg/L)	nitrate removed per WC (mg)
0	400.00	396.00	0.00
1	398.00	394.02	398.00
2	396.02	392.06	396.02
3	394.06	390.12	394.06
4	392.12	388.20	392.12
5	390.20	386.30	390.20
6	388.30	384.41	388.30
7	386.41	382.55	386.41
8	384.55	380.70	384.55
9	382.70	378.88	382.70
10	380.88	377.07	380.88
11	379.07	375.28	379.07
12	377.28	373.50	377.28
13	375.50	371.75	375.50
14	373.75	370.01	373.75
15	372.01	368.29	372.01
16	370.29	366.59	370.29
17	368.59	364.90	368.59
18	366.90	363.23	366.90
19	365.23	361.58	365.23
20	363.58	359.95	363.58
21	361.95	358.33	361.95
22	360.33	356.72	360.33
23	358.72	355.14	358.72
24	357.14	353.56	357.14
25	355.56	352.01	355.56
26	354.01	350.47	354.01
27	352.47	348.94	352.47
28	350.94	347.43	350.94
29	349.43	345.94	349.43
30	347.94	344.46	347.94
31	346.46	343.00	346.46
32	345.00	341.55	345.00
33	343.55	340.11	343.55
34	342.11	338.69	342.11
35	340.69	337.28	340.69
36	339.28	335.89	339.28
37	337.89	334.51	337.89
38	336.51	333.15	336.51
39	335.15	331.79	335.15
40	333.79	330.46	333.79
41	332.46	329.13	332.46
42	331.13	327.82	331.13
43	329.82	326.52	329.82
44	328.52	325.24	328.52
45	327.24	323.96	327.24
46	325.96	322.71	325.96
47	324.71	321.46	324.71
48	323.46	320.22	323.46
49	322.22	319.00	322.22
50	321.00	317.79	321.00
51	319.79	316.59	319.79
52	318.59	315.41	318.59
53	317.41	314.23	317.41
54	316.23	313.07	316.23
55	315.07	311.92	315.07
56	313.92	310.78	313.92
57	312.78	309.65	312.78
58	311.65	308.54	311.65
59	310.54	307.43	310.54
60	309.43	306.34	309.43
61	308.34	305.25	308.34
62	307.25	304.18	307.25
63	306.18	303.12	306.18
64	305.12	302.07	305.12
65	304.07	301.03	304.07
66	303.03	300.00	303.03
67	302.00	298.98	302.00
68	300.98	297.97	300.98
69	299.97	296.97	299.97
70	298.97	295.98	298.97
71	297.98	295.00	297.98
72	297.00	294.03	297.00
73	296.03	293.07	296.03
74	295.07	292.12	295.07
75	294.12	291.18	294.12
76	293.18	290.24	293.18
77	292.24	289.32	292.24
78	291.32	288.41	291.32
79	290.41	287.50	290.41
80	289.50	286.61	289.50
81	288.61	285.72	288.61
82	287.72	284.85	287.72
83	286.85	283.98	286.85
84	285.98	283.12	285.98
85	285.12	282.27	285.12
86	284.27	281.42	284.27
87	283.42	280.59	283.42
88	282.59	279.76	282.59
89	281.76	278.95	281.76
90	280.95	278.14	280.95
91	280.14	277.34	280.14
92	279.34	276.54	279.34
93	278.54	275.76	278.54
94	277.76	274.98	277.76
95	276.98	274.21	276.98
96	276.21	273.45	276.21
97	275.45	272.69	275.45
98	274.69	271.95	274.69
99	273.95	271.21	273.95
100	273.21	270.47	273.21
101	272.47	269.75	272.47
102	271.75	269.03	271.75
103	271.03	268.32	271.03
104	270.32	267.62	270.32
105	269.62	266.92	269.62
106	268.92	266.23	268.92
107	268.23	265.55	268.23
108	267.55	264.88	267.55
109	266.88	264.21	266.88
110	266.21	263.54	266.21
111	265.54	262.89	265.54
112	264.89	262.24	264.89
113	264.24	261.60	264.24
114	263.60	260.96	263.60
115	262.96	260.33	262.96
116	262.33	259.71	262.33
117	261.71	259.09	261.71
118	261.09	258.48	261.09
119	260.48	257.88	260.48
120	259.88	257.28	259.88
121	259.28	256.68	259.28
122	258.68	256.10	258.68
123	258.10	255.52	258.10
124	257.52	254.94	257.52
125	256.94	254.37	256.94
126	256.37	253.81	256.37
127	255.81	253.25	255.81
128	255.25	252.70	255.25
129	254.70	252.15	254.70
130	254.15	251.61	254.15
131	253.61	251.07	253.61
132	253.07	250.54	253.07
133	252.54	250.02	252.54
134	252.02	249.50	252.02
135	251.50	248.98	251.50
136	250.98	248.47	250.98
137	250.47	247.97	250.47
138	249.97	247.47	249.97
139	249.47	246.97	249.47
140	248.97	246.48	248.97
141	248.48	246.00	248.48
142	248.00	245.52	248.00
143	247.52	245.04	247.52
144	247.04	244.57	247.04
145	246.57	244.11	246.57
146	246.11	243.65	246.11
147	245.65	243.19	245.65
148	245.19	242.74	245.19
149	244.74	242.29	244.74
150	244.29	241.85	244.29
151	243.85	241.41	243.85
152	243.41	240.97	243.41
153	242.97	240.55	242.97
154	242.55	240.12	242.55
155	242.12	239.70	242.12
156	241.70	239.28	241.70
157	241.28	238.87	241.28
158	240.87	238.46	240.87
159	240.46	238.06	240.46
160	240.06	237.65	240.06
161	239.65	237.26	239.65
162	239.26	236.87	239.26
163	238.87	236.48	238.87
164	238.48	236.09	238.48
165	238.09	235.71	238.09
166	237.71	235.33	237.71
167	237.33	234.96	237.33
168	236.96	234.59	236.96
169	236.59	234.23	236.59
170	236.23	233.86	236.23
171	235.86	233.50	235.86
172	235.50	233.15	235.50
173	235.15	232.80	235.15
174	234.80	232.45	234.80
175	234.45	232.11	234.45
176	234.11	231.76	234.11
177	233.76	231.43	233.76
178	233.43	231.09	233.43
179	233.09	230.76	233.09
180	232.76	230.43	232.76
181	232.43	230.11	232.43
182	232.11	229.79	232.11
183	231.79	229.47	231.79
184	231.47	229.16	231.47
185	231.16	228.84	231.16
186	230.84	228.54	230.84
187	230.54	228.23	230.54
188	230.23	227.93	230.23
189	229.93	227.63	229.93
190	229.63	227.33	229.63
191	229.33	227.04	229.33
192	229.04	226.75	229.04
193	228.75	226.46	228.75
194	228.46	226.18	228.46
195	228.18	225.90	228.18
196	227.90	225.62	227.90
197	227.62	225.34	227.62
198	227.34	225.07	227.34
199	227.07	224.80	227.07
200	226.80	224.53	226.80
201	226.53	224.26	226.53
202	226.26	224.00	226.26
203	226.00	223.74	226.00
204	225.74	223.48	225.74
205	225.48	223.23	225.48
206	225.23	222.98	225.23
207	224.98	222.73	224.98
208	224.73	222.48	224.73
209	224.48	222.23	224.48
210	224.23	221.99	224.23
211	223.99	221.75	223.99
212	223.75	221.51	223.75
213	223.51	221.28	223.51
214	223.28	221.05	223.28
215	223.05	220.82	223.05
216	222.82	220.59	222.82
217	222.59	220.36	222.59
218	222.36	220.14	222.36
219	222.14	219.92	222.14
220	221.92	219.70	221.92
221	221.70	219.48	221.70
222	221.48	219.27	221.48
223	221.27	219.05	221.27
224	221.05	218.84	221.05
225	220.84	218.63	220.84
226	220.63	218.43	220.63
227	220.43	218.22	220.43
228	220.22	218.02	220.22
229	220.02	217.82	220.02
230	219.82	217.62	219.82
231	219.62	217.43	219.62
232	219.43	217.23	219.43
233	219.23	217.04	219.23
234	219.04	216.85	219.04
235	218.85	216.66	218.85
236	218.66	216.47	218.66
237	218.47	216.29	218.47
238	218.29	216.11	218.29
239	218.11	215.93	218.11
240	217.93	215.75	217.93
241	217.75	215.57	217.75
242	217.57	215.39	217.57
243	217.39	215.22	217.39
244	217.22	215.05	217.22
245	217.05	214.88	217.05
246	216.88	214.71	216.88
247	216.71	214.54	216.71
248	216.54	214.38	216.54
249	216.38	214.21	216.38
250	216.21	214.05	216.21
251	216.05	213.89	216.05
252	215.89	213.73	215.89
253	215.73	213.57	215.73
254	215.57	213.42	215.57
255	215.42	213.26	215.42
256	215.26	213.11	215.26
257	215.11	212.96	215.11
258	214.96	212.81	214.96
259	214.81	212.66	214.81
260	214.66	212.51	214.66
261	214.51	212.37	214.51
262	214.37	212.23	214.37
263	214.23	212.08	214.23
264	214.08	211.94	214.08
265	213.94	211.80	213.94
266	213.80	211.67	213.80
267	213.67	211.53	213.67
268	213.53	211.39	213.53
269	213.39	211.26	213.39
270	213.26	211.13	213.26
271	213.13	211.00	213.13
272	213.00	210.87	213.00
273	212.87	210.74	212.87
274	212.74	210.61	212.74
275	212.61	210.48	212.61
276	212.48	210.36	212.48
277	212.36	210.24	212.36
278	212.24	210.11	212.24
279	212.11	209.99	212.11
280	211.99	209.87	211.99
281	211.87	209.75	211.87
282	211.75	209.64	211.75
283	211.64	209.52	211.64
284	211.52	209.40	211.52
285	211.40	209.29	211.40
286	211.29	209.18	211.29
287	211.18	209.07	211.18
288	211.07	208.95	211.07
289	210.95	208.85	210.95
290	210.85	208.74	210.85
291	210.74	208.63	210.74
292	210.63	208.52	210.63
293	210.52	208.42	210.52
294	210.42	208.31	210.42
295	210.31	208.21	210.31
296	210.21	208.11	210.21
297	210.11	208.01	210.11
298	210.01	207.91	210.01
299	209.91	207.81	209.91
300	209.81	207.71	209.81
301	209.71	207.61	209.71
302	209.61	207.52	209.61
303	209.52	207.42	209.52
304	209.42	207.33	209.42
305	209.33	207.23	209.33
306	209.23	207.14	209.23
307	209.14	207.05	209.14
308	209.05	206.96	209.05
309	208.96	206.87	208.96
310	208.87	206.78	208.87
311	208.78	206.69	208.78
312	208.69	206.61	208.69
313	208.61	206.52	208.61
314	208.52	206.44	208.52
315	208.44	206.35	208.44
316	208.35	206.27	208.35
317	208.27	206.19	208.27
318	208.19	206.10	208.19
319	208.10	206.02	208.10
320	208.02	205.94	208.02
321	207.94	205.86	207.94
322	207.86	205.78	207.86
323	207.78	205.71	207.78
324	207.71	205.63	207.71
325	207.63	205.55	207.63
326	207.55	205.48	207.55
327	207.48	205.40	207.48
328	207.40	205.33	207.40
329	207.33	205.26	207.33
330	207.26	205.18	207.26
331	207.18	205.11	207.18
332	207.11	205.04	207.11
333	207.04	204.97	207.04
334	206.97	204.90	206.97
335	206.90	204.83	206.90
336	206.83	204.76	206.83
337	206.76	204.69	206.76
338	206.69	204.63	206.69
339	206.63	204.56	206.63
340	206.56	204.50	206.56
341	206.50	204.43	206.50
342	206.43	204.37	206.43
343	206.37	204.30	206.37
344	206.30	204.24	206.30
345	206.24	204.18	206.24
346	206.18	204.12	206.18
347	206.12	204.05	206.12
348	206.05	203.99	206.05
349	205.99	203.93	205.99
350	205.93	203.87	205.93
351	205.87	203.82	205.87
352	205.82	203.76	205.82
353	205.76	203.70	205.76
354	205.70	203.64	205.70
355	205.64	203.59	205.64
356	205.59	203.53	205.59
357	205.53	203.48	205.53
358	205.48	203.42	205.48
359	205.42	203.37	205.42
360	205.37	203.31	205.37
361	205.31	203.26	205.31
362	205.26	203.21	205.26
363	205.21	203.16	205.21
364	205.16	203.10	205.16
365	205.10	203.05	205.10

elysics · Jul 12, 2021

Malcontent said:
Why is that? Is potassium not removed by water changes?

On day zero you start with 400 mg/L potassium.

You do a 1% water change and then have 396 mg/L then add 2 mg/L and end up with 398 mg/L. Now do that 364 more times.

Water change iteration nitrate (mg/L) nitrate level after WC (mg/L) nitrate removed per WC (mg)
0
400.00
396.00
0.00
1
398.00
394.02
398.00
2
396.02
392.06
396.02
3
394.06
390.12
394.06
4
392.12
388.20
392.12
5
390.20
386.30
390.20
6
388.30
384.41
388.30
7
386.41
382.55
386.41
8
384.55
380.70
384.55
9
382.70
378.88
382.70
10
380.88
377.07
380.88
11
379.07
375.28
379.07
12
377.28
373.50
377.28
13
375.50
371.75
375.50
14
373.75
370.01
373.75
15
372.01
368.29
372.01
16
370.29
366.59
370.29
17
368.59
364.90
368.59
18
366.90
363.23
366.90
19
365.23
361.58
365.23
20
363.58
359.95
363.58
21
361.95
358.33
361.95
22
360.33
356.72
360.33
23
358.72
355.14
358.72
24
357.14
353.56
357.14
25
355.56
352.01
355.56
26
354.01
350.47
354.01
27
352.47
348.94
352.47
28
350.94
347.43
350.94
29
349.43
345.94
349.43
30
347.94
344.46
347.94
31
346.46
343.00
346.46
32
345.00
341.55
345.00
33
343.55
340.11
343.55
34
342.11
338.69
342.11
35
340.69
337.28
340.69
36
339.28
335.89
339.28
37
337.89
334.51
337.89
38
336.51
333.15
336.51
39
335.15
331.79
335.15
40
333.79
330.46
333.79
41
332.46
329.13
332.46
42
331.13
327.82
331.13
43
329.82
326.52
329.82
44
328.52
325.24
328.52
45
327.24
323.96
327.24
46
325.96
322.71
325.96
47
324.71
321.46
324.71
48
323.46
320.22
323.46
49
322.22
319.00
322.22
50
321.00
317.79
321.00
51
319.79
316.59
319.79
52
318.59
315.41
318.59
53
317.41
314.23
317.41
54
316.23
313.07
316.23
55
315.07
311.92
315.07
56
313.92
310.78
313.92
57
312.78
309.65
312.78
58
311.65
308.54
311.65
59
310.54
307.43
310.54
60
309.43
306.34
309.43
61
308.34
305.25
308.34
62
307.25
304.18
307.25
63
306.18
303.12
306.18
64
305.12
302.07
305.12
65
304.07
301.03
304.07
66
303.03
300.00
303.03
67
302.00
298.98
302.00
68
300.98
297.97
300.98
69
299.97
296.97
299.97
70
298.97
295.98
298.97
71
297.98
295.00
297.98
72
297.00
294.03
297.00
73
296.03
293.07
296.03
74
295.07
292.12
295.07
75
294.12
291.18
294.12
76
293.18
290.24
293.18
77
292.24
289.32
292.24
78
291.32
288.41
291.32
79
290.41
287.50
290.41
80
289.50
286.61
289.50
81
288.61
285.72
288.61
82
287.72
284.85
287.72
83
286.85
283.98
286.85
84
285.98
283.12
285.98
85
285.12
282.27
285.12
86
284.27
281.42
284.27
87
283.42
280.59
283.42
88
282.59
279.76
282.59
89
281.76
278.95
281.76
90
280.95
278.14
280.95
91
280.14
277.34
280.14
92
279.34
276.54
279.34
93
278.54
275.76
278.54
94
277.76
274.98
277.76
95
276.98
274.21
276.98
96
276.21
273.45
276.21
97
275.45
272.69
275.45
98
274.69
271.95
274.69
99
273.95
271.21
273.95
100
273.21
270.47
273.21
101
272.47
269.75
272.47
102
271.75
269.03
271.75
103
271.03
268.32
271.03
104
270.32
267.62
270.32
105
269.62
266.92
269.62
106
268.92
266.23
268.92
107
268.23
265.55
268.23
108
267.55
264.88
267.55
109
266.88
264.21
266.88
110
266.21
263.54
266.21
111
265.54
262.89
265.54
112
264.89
262.24
264.89
113
264.24
261.60
264.24
114
263.60
260.96
263.60
115
262.96
260.33
262.96
116
262.33
259.71
262.33
117
261.71
259.09
261.71
118
261.09
258.48
261.09
119
260.48
257.88
260.48
120
259.88
257.28
259.88
121
259.28
256.68
259.28
122
258.68
256.10
258.68
123
258.10
255.52
258.10
124
257.52
254.94
257.52
125
256.94
254.37
256.94
126
256.37
253.81
256.37
127
255.81
253.25
255.81
128
255.25
252.70
255.25
129
254.70
252.15
254.70
130
254.15
251.61
254.15
131
253.61
251.07
253.61
132
253.07
250.54
253.07
133
252.54
250.02
252.54
134
252.02
249.50
252.02
135
251.50
248.98
251.50
136
250.98
248.47
250.98
137
250.47
247.97
250.47
138
249.97
247.47
249.97
139
249.47
246.97
249.47
140
248.97
246.48
248.97
141
248.48
246.00
248.48
142
248.00
245.52
248.00
143
247.52
245.04
247.52
144
247.04
244.57
247.04
145
246.57
244.11
246.57
146
246.11
243.65
246.11
147
245.65
243.19
245.65
148
245.19
242.74
245.19
149
244.74
242.29
244.74
150
244.29
241.85
244.29
151
243.85
241.41
243.85
152
243.41
240.97
243.41
153
242.97
240.55
242.97
154
242.55
240.12
242.55
155
242.12
239.70
242.12
156
241.70
239.28
241.70
157
241.28
238.87
241.28
158
240.87
238.46
240.87
159
240.46
238.06
240.46
160
240.06
237.65
240.06
161
239.65
237.26
239.65
162
239.26
236.87
239.26
163
238.87
236.48
238.87
164
238.48
236.09
238.48
165
238.09
235.71
238.09
166
237.71
235.33
237.71
167
237.33
234.96
237.33
168
236.96
234.59
236.96
169
236.59
234.23
236.59
170
236.23
233.86
236.23
171
235.86
233.50
235.86
172
235.50
233.15
235.50
173
235.15
232.80
235.15
174
234.80
232.45
234.80
175
234.45
232.11
234.45
176
234.11
231.76
234.11
177
233.76
231.43
233.76
178
233.43
231.09
233.43
179
233.09
230.76
233.09
180
232.76
230.43
232.76
181
232.43
230.11
232.43
182
232.11
229.79
232.11
183
231.79
229.47
231.79
184
231.47
229.16
231.47
185
231.16
228.84
231.16
186
230.84
228.54
230.84
187
230.54
228.23
230.54
188
230.23
227.93
230.23
189
229.93
227.63
229.93
190
229.63
227.33
229.63
191
229.33
227.04
229.33
192
229.04
226.75
229.04
193
228.75
226.46
228.75
194
228.46
226.18
228.46
195
228.18
225.90
228.18
196
227.90
225.62
227.90
197
227.62
225.34
227.62
198
227.34
225.07
227.34
199
227.07
224.80
227.07
200
226.80
224.53
226.80
201
226.53
224.26
226.53
202
226.26
224.00
226.26
203
226.00
223.74
226.00
204
225.74
223.48
225.74
205
225.48
223.23
225.48
206
225.23
222.98
225.23
207
224.98
222.73
224.98
208
224.73
222.48
224.73
209
224.48
222.23
224.48
210
224.23
221.99
224.23
211
223.99
221.75
223.99
212
223.75
221.51
223.75
213
223.51
221.28
223.51
214
223.28
221.05
223.28
215
223.05
220.82
223.05
216
222.82
220.59
222.82
217
222.59
220.36
222.59
218
222.36
220.14
222.36
219
222.14
219.92
222.14
220
221.92
219.70
221.92
221
221.70
219.48
221.70
222
221.48
219.27
221.48
223
221.27
219.05
221.27
224
221.05
218.84
221.05
225
220.84
218.63
220.84
226
220.63
218.43
220.63
227
220.43
218.22
220.43
228
220.22
218.02
220.22
229
220.02
217.82
220.02
230
219.82
217.62
219.82
231
219.62
217.43
219.62
232
219.43
217.23
219.43
233
219.23
217.04
219.23
234
219.04
216.85
219.04
235
218.85
216.66
218.85
236
218.66
216.47
218.66
237
218.47
216.29
218.47
238
218.29
216.11
218.29
239
218.11
215.93
218.11
240
217.93
215.75
217.93
241
217.75
215.57
217.75
242
217.57
215.39
217.57
243
217.39
215.22
217.39
244
217.22
215.05
217.22
245
217.05
214.88
217.05
246
216.88
214.71
216.88
247
216.71
214.54
216.71
248
216.54
214.38
216.54
249
216.38
214.21
216.38
250
216.21
214.05
216.21
251
216.05
213.89
216.05
252
215.89
213.73
215.89
253
215.73
213.57
215.73
254
215.57
213.42
215.57
255
215.42
213.26
215.42
256
215.26
213.11
215.26
257
215.11
212.96
215.11
258
214.96
212.81
214.96
259
214.81
212.66
214.81
260
214.66
212.51
214.66
261
214.51
212.37
214.51
262
214.37
212.23
214.37
263
214.23
212.08
214.23
264
214.08
211.94
214.08
265
213.94
211.80
213.94
266
213.80
211.67
213.80
267
213.67
211.53
213.67
268
213.53
211.39
213.53
269
213.39
211.26
213.39
270
213.26
211.13
213.26
271
213.13
211.00
213.13
272
213.00
210.87
213.00
273
212.87
210.74
212.87
274
212.74
210.61
212.74
275
212.61
210.48
212.61
276
212.48
210.36
212.48
277
212.36
210.24
212.36
278
212.24
210.11
212.24
279
212.11
209.99
212.11
280
211.99
209.87
211.99
281
211.87
209.75
211.87
282
211.75
209.64
211.75
283
211.64
209.52
211.64
284
211.52
209.40
211.52
285
211.40
209.29
211.40
286
211.29
209.18
211.29
287
211.18
209.07
211.18
288
211.07
208.95
211.07
289
210.95
208.85
210.95
290
210.85
208.74
210.85
291
210.74
208.63
210.74
292
210.63
208.52
210.63
293
210.52
208.42
210.52
294
210.42
208.31
210.42
295
210.31
208.21
210.31
296
210.21
208.11
210.21
297
210.11
208.01
210.11
298
210.01
207.91
210.01
299
209.91
207.81
209.91
300
209.81
207.71
209.81
301
209.71
207.61
209.71
302
209.61
207.52
209.61
303
209.52
207.42
209.52
304
209.42
207.33
209.42
305
209.33
207.23
209.33
306
209.23
207.14
209.23
307
209.14
207.05
209.14
308
209.05
206.96
209.05
309
208.96
206.87
208.96
310
208.87
206.78
208.87
311
208.78
206.69
208.78
312
208.69
206.61
208.69
313
208.61
206.52
208.61
314
208.52
206.44
208.52
315
208.44
206.35
208.44
316
208.35
206.27
208.35
317
208.27
206.19
208.27
318
208.19
206.10
208.19
319
208.10
206.02
208.10
320
208.02
205.94
208.02
321
207.94
205.86
207.94
322
207.86
205.78
207.86
323
207.78
205.71
207.78
324
207.71
205.63
207.71
325
207.63
205.55
207.63
326
207.55
205.48
207.55
327
207.48
205.40
207.48
328
207.40
205.33
207.40
329
207.33
205.26
207.33
330
207.26
205.18
207.26
331
207.18
205.11
207.18
332
207.11
205.04
207.11
333
207.04
204.97
207.04
334
206.97
204.90
206.97
335
206.90
204.83
206.90
336
206.83
204.76
206.83
337
206.76
204.69
206.76
338
206.69
204.63
206.69
339
206.63
204.56
206.63
340
206.56
204.50
206.56
341
206.50
204.43
206.50
342
206.43
204.37
206.43
343
206.37
204.30
206.37
344
206.30
204.24
206.30
345
206.24
204.18
206.24
346
206.18
204.12
206.18
347
206.12
204.05
206.12
348
206.05
203.99
206.05
349
205.99
203.93
205.99
350
205.93
203.87
205.93
351
205.87
203.82
205.87
352
205.82
203.76
205.82
353
205.76
203.70
205.76
354
205.70
203.64
205.70
355
205.64
203.59
205.64
356
205.59
203.53
205.59
357
205.53
203.48
205.53
358
205.48
203.42
205.48
359
205.42
203.37
205.42
360
205.37
203.31
205.37
361
205.31
203.26
205.31
362
205.26
203.21
205.26
363
205.21
203.16
205.21
364
205.16
203.10
205.16
365
205.10
203.05
205.10

Your waterchange water doesn't have 0 potassium though. If it does, you should switch salts.

Its more like you start with 400ppm, 1% change, still 400ppm, add 2, 402ppm, 1% change, 401.98ppm, add 2 ppm, 403.98ppm, 1% change, 403.94 ppm etc.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 12, 2021

Malcontent said:
Why is that? Is potassium not removed by water changes?

On day zero you start with 400 mg/L potassium.

You do a 1% water change and then have 396 mg/L then add 2 mg/L and end up with 398 mg/L. Now do that 364 more times

Your mistake is assuming there is no potassium in the water change water, and no ongoing addition of more potassium. Those two things make potassium rise constantly, although not as fast as with no water changes.

Malcontent · Jul 12, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Your mistake is assuming there is no potassium in the water change water, and no ongoing addition of more potassium. Those two things make potassium rise constantly, although not as fast as with no water changes.

How much potassium is in the water change water?

This is obviously a nitrate accumulation spreadsheet for freshwater. But even when I account for evaporation and top offs using tap water with nitrate in it, it still reaches a steady state.

nitrate accum. per day (mg/L)	2
volume (L)	100
water change interval (days)	30
water change %	30
nitrate accum. between WC (mg/L)	60
nitrate accum. between WC (mg)	6000
tap water nitrate (mg/L)	20
nitrate added by WC (mg)	600
evaporation %/week	5
nitrate added by topoff (mg)	100

Water change iteration	nitrate level right before WC (mg/L)	nitrate level after WC (mg/L)	nitrate removed per WC (mg)
0	400.00	370.00	0.00
1	451.50	299.48	13545.00
2	377.45	251.34	11323.46
3	326.91	218.49	9807.26
4	292.42	196.07	8772.46
5	268.87	180.77	8066.20
6	252.81	170.32	7584.18
7	241.84	163.20	7255.20
8	234.36	158.33	7030.68
9	229.25	155.01	6877.44
10	225.76	152.75	6772.85
11	223.38	151.20	6701.47
12	221.76	150.14	6652.75
13	220.65	149.42	6619.50
14	219.89	148.93	6596.81
15	219.38	148.60	6581.32
16	219.03	148.37	6570.75
17	218.78	148.21	6563.54
18	218.62	148.10	6558.62
19	218.51	148.03	6555.26
20	218.43	147.98	6552.96
21	218.38	147.95	6551.40
22	218.34	147.92	6550.33
23	218.32	147.91	6549.60
24	218.30	147.90	6549.10
25	218.29	147.89	6548.76
26	218.28	147.88	6548.53
27	218.28	147.88	6548.37
28	218.28	147.88	6548.26
29	218.27	147.88	6548.19
30	218.27	147.88	6548.14
31	218.27	147.88	6548.11
32	218.27	147.88	6548.08
33	218.27	147.87	6548.07
34	218.27	147.87	6548.05
35	218.27	147.87	6548.05
36	218.27	147.87	6548.04
37	218.27	147.87	6548.04
38	218.27	147.87	6548.04

elysics · Jul 12, 2021

Malcontent said:
How much potassium is in the water change water?

This is obviously a nitrate accumulation spreadsheet for freshwater. But even when I account for evaporation and top offs using tap water with nitrate in it, it still reaches a steady state.

nitrate accum. per day (mg/L)
2
volume (L)
100
water change interval (days)
30
water change %
30
nitrate accum. between WC (mg/L)
60
nitrate accum. between WC (mg)
6000
tap water nitrate (mg/L)
20
nitrate added by WC (mg)
600
evaporation %/week
5
nitrate added by topoff (mg)
100
Water change iteration nitrate level right before WC (mg/L) nitrate level after WC (mg/L) nitrate removed per WC (mg)
0
400.00
370.00
0.00
1
451.50
299.48
13545.00
2
377.45
251.34
11323.46
3
326.91
218.49
9807.26
4
292.42
196.07
8772.46
5
268.87
180.77
8066.20
6
252.81
170.32
7584.18
7
241.84
163.20
7255.20
8
234.36
158.33
7030.68
9
229.25
155.01
6877.44
10
225.76
152.75
6772.85
11
223.38
151.20
6701.47
12
221.76
150.14
6652.75
13
220.65
149.42
6619.50
14
219.89
148.93
6596.81
15
219.38
148.60
6581.32
16
219.03
148.37
6570.75
17
218.78
148.21
6563.54
18
218.62
148.10
6558.62
19
218.51
148.03
6555.26
20
218.43
147.98
6552.96
21
218.38
147.95
6551.40
22
218.34
147.92
6550.33
23
218.32
147.91
6549.60
24
218.30
147.90
6549.10
25
218.29
147.89
6548.76
26
218.28
147.88
6548.53
27
218.28
147.88
6548.37
28
218.28
147.88
6548.26
29
218.27
147.88
6548.19
30
218.27
147.88
6548.14
31
218.27
147.88
6548.11
32
218.27
147.88
6548.08
33
218.27
147.87
6548.07
34
218.27
147.87
6548.05
35
218.27
147.87
6548.05
36
218.27
147.87
6548.04
37
218.27
147.87
6548.04
38
218.27
147.87
6548.04

Well, think about it. If you start with a value of 400ppm , then your new water probably also has a value of 400ppm

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 12, 2021

Yes, nearly all mixes are quite accurate in potassium levels at about 400 ppm at 35 ppt.

You want 400 ppm, not 0 ppm or 800 ppm.

Malcontent · Jul 12, 2021

elysics said:
Well, think about it. If you start with a value of 400ppm , then your new water probably also has a value of 400ppm

With 400 ppm in the replacement water, it reaches a steady state value of ~595 ppm. Still no indefinite accumulation...

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 12, 2021

Malcontent said:
With 400 ppm in the replacement water, it reaches a steady state value of ~595 ppm. Still no indefinite accumulation...

It does indefinitely accumulate, but I agree that the last million years of potassium addition show very little additional accumulation (lol). It is also true that "water changes do not prevent the accumulation".

Water changes reduce the rate of accumulation, and may cap the rise, but also possibly not at an acceptable level.

IMO, 500 ppm is not acceptable unless you are experimenting to see the effects of elevating potassium.

Malcontent · Jul 12, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
It does indefinitely accumulate, but I agree that the last million years of potassium addition show very little additional accumulation (lol). It is also true that "water changes do not prevent the accumulation".

It reaches 95% of the steady state value within 5 monthly water changes.

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Water changes reduce the rate of accumulation, and may cap the rise, but also possibly not at an acceptable level.

IMO, 500 ppm is not acceptable unless you are experimenting to see the effects of elevating potassium.

If you increase the water change rate to a modest 1.05% / day it keeps you at 480 ppm.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 12, 2021

Malcontent said:
It reaches 95% of the steady state value within 5 monthly water changes.

If you increase the water change rate to a modest 1.05% / day it keeps you at 480 ppm.

That may be, and is too high, hence the reason to not use it, IMO.

There's no reason to not use sodium or calcium nitrate, and avoid this problem.

areefer01 · Jul 12, 2021

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Yes, with any brand of sodium nitrate, use the potassium nitrate pull down. It is very close and if you want an overly "correct" answer, use 15% less since sodium nitrate is a little more potent.

Thank you kindly. Have a great day!