No nitrates, climbing phosphates advice

[konatown]

I’ve read a lot about this today, but kind of confused on what I should do, if I should do anything at all.

I have a 65 gallon a few months old, pretty heavily stocked with fish. Small to medium amount of coral. Skimmer running often. I only run a bag of carbon sitting in sump, no chemi clean or gfo, no reactors, no macro algae. I feed a mixture of frozen, pellets and nori 1-2 times a day

My (80 lbs) live rock is from a very old tank and is clearly working very well as it’s keeping my tank nitrate free. I usually test 0 and sometimes 1, using Red Sea. I have no algae at all, other than film on the glass occasionally

Phosphate was .03, now climbing to .1 probably from pellets?

Should I do anything to get nitrates up, like dose it just a bit? Or should I leave it alone. I have a pristine sand bed, and I’d like to keep it that way, I’ve had bad gha outbreaks in the past and I’m trying to avoid that this time. I’ve had cyano and I believe dinos, which I beat by letting nutrients go, then the gha got bad.. and Im really trying to avoid all of that like the plague.

All of my corals are pretty happy, but I just want to know the risks of my nutrient levels, leaving it the way it is, or changing it.

 

[Macdaddynick1]

Dose kno3, it’ll lower your po4.

 

[sixty_reefer]

What’s happening in your tank at the moment is that you have a lot of organic carbon available, the organic carbon is making your nitrates bottom out as you most likely run out of nitrates in the tank, that’s causing your po4 to rise as no no3 available.

Your options here are:
1: Find the source of organic carbon and reduce it

2: increase nitrates by dosing, this will have to be made daily until you find what’s causing your tank to have so much organic carbon available.

 

[konatown]

What’s happening in your tank at the moment is that you have a lot of organic carbon available, the organic carbon is making your nitrates bottom out as you most likely run out of nitrates in the tank, that’s causing your po4 to rise as no no3 available.

Your options here are:
1: Find the source of organic carbon and reduce it

2: increase nitrates by dosing, this will have to be made daily until you find what’s causing your tank to have so much organic carbon available.

So, I seem to have had a few bacterial blooms in the past, and I had a really bad one recently. Could this be related to my ‘source of organic carbon’? And is there a way I could pinpoint the source?

 

[sixty_reefer]

So, I seem to have had a few bacterial blooms in the past, and I had a really bad one recently. Could this be related to my ‘source of organic carbon’? And is there a way I could pinpoint the source?

Cyanobacteria could thrive in a tank that has a lot of carbon available, dinoflagellates will appear normally if there isn’t nutrients available, which is likely to happen if your no3 keeps bottom out.
if you raise your no3 you can avoid both to thrive in your system
by reading your opening comment I got the idea that you may have a lot of herbivores, algae wafers may have a lot of carbon if that’s one of your main foods to the tank.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Feeding heavier is likely to increase phosphates more than nitrates disproportionately. I'd agree here, worth trying sodium nitrate and dosing etc. Monitor closely, both phosphates and nitrates. Good suggestions above. My tank had a similar issue (.3 phos, 3ppm nitrates) and nitrate dosing helped lower phosphates. May have to do for a while before stability is achieved.

 

[konatown]

Cyanobacteria could thrive in a tank that has a lot of carbon available, dinoflagellates will appear normally if there isn’t nutrients available, which is likely to happen if your no3 keeps bottom out.
if you raise your no3 you can avoid both to thrive in your system
by reading your opening comment I got the idea that you may have a lot of herbivores, algae wafers may have a lot of carbon if that’s one of your main foods to the tank.

Thanks. I might start with neonitro as I read it’s easy to measure and dose. Should I bump it up to like, 5 over the course of a few days? I’ll read up on this more as well

Feeding heavier is likely to increase phosphates more than nitrates disproportionately. I'd agree here, worth trying sodium nitrate and dosing etc. Monitor closely, both phosphates and nitrates. Good suggestions above. My tank had a similar issue (.3 phos, 3ppm nitrates) and nitrate dosing helped lower phosphates. May have to do for a while before stability is achieved.

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure dosing nitrate sounded right, I hate changing things in the tank without really knowing what I’m doing
I don’t use wafers actually, but I do use nori. Like every other day or so

 

[JCM]

I guess I'll be contrarian? If everything looks good and you're not having algae issues, I wouldn't start dosing nutrients. I'd let things ride until a problem actually shows up in your tank and not just in a vial.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Thanks. I might start with neonitro as I read it’s easy to measure and dose. Should I bump it up to like, 5 over the course of a few days? I’ll read up on this more as well



Thanks. I just wanted to make sure dosing nitrate sounded right, I hate changing things in the tank without really knowing what I’m doing
I don’t use wafers actually, but I do use nori. Like every other day or so

Anything above 1 is good as long as it’s consistent, you may have to keep testing for a few days until you get a consistent dose required for your system demands, keep an eye on po4 as if there is a lot of carbon available that may bring down your po4 to a dangerous level to.
Nory alone may not be the source, maybe look at the pellets you have, do you add amino acids to the tank?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I guess I'll be contrarian? If everything looks good and you're not having algae issues, I wouldn't start dosing nutrients. I'd let things ride until a problem actually shows up in your tank and not just in a vial.

That perception is what causes algae to thrive in our tanks, as nutrients get limited the bacteria population in a tank decreases taking more time to transform ammonium to nitrates, meaning if the biological filter is taking longer to transform ammonia in to nitrates than there will be more ammonia available for the algae to use as most pest algaes will prefer ammonia to nitrates.

 

[JCM]

That perception is what causes algae to thrive in our tanks, as nutrients get limited the bacteria population in a tank decreases taking more time to transform ammonium to nitrates, meaning if the biological filter is taking longer to transform ammonia in to nitrates than there will be more ammonia available for the algae to use as most pest algaes will prefer ammonia to nitrates.

Corals will use ammonia as a nitrogen source as well, correct?

What if it's a faulty test kit? Or faulty testing procedure? OP specifically said they had "no algae" and "a spotless sand bed". I'd hesitate to make changes if everything is rolling smoothly.

 

[Spare time]

What’s happening in your tank at the moment is that you have a lot of organic carbon available, the organic carbon is making your nitrates bottom out as you most likely run out of nitrates in the tank, that’s causing your po4 to rise as no no3 available.

Your options here are:
1: Find the source of organic carbon and reduce it

2: increase nitrates by dosing, this will have to be made daily until you find what’s causing your tank to have so much organic carbon available.

I'd think it more likely to be that the OP has a skimmer which does more for the prevention of nitrate than phosphate rather than the tank having a mysterious source of organic carbon. In this case, dosing nitrate won't do anything.

 

[mtraylor]

A good rule of thumb is.....if it isn't broken then dont try to fix it.

What I mean hear is...if the tank is thriving with the current parms. Dont go chasing parms. So if your corals look good and everything is working like clock work. Just enjoy and keep an eye on the nitrates as you dont want them bottomed out for a long time. With heavy fish load....you will not have any issues. Reduce your skimming can help as well.

 

[konatown]

I'd think it more likely to be that the OP has a skimmer which does more for the prevention of nitrate than phosphate rather than the tank having a mysterious source of organic carbon. In this case, dosing nitrate won't do anything.

I’ve been trying to leave the skimmer off some lately to see what happens.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I'd think it more likely to be that the OP has a skimmer which does more for the prevention of nitrate than phosphate rather than the tank having a mysterious source of organic carbon. In this case, dosing nitrate won't do anything.

Assuming that was the skimmer stripping the nitrates, would you prefer switching of the skimmer to dose nitrates? I believe switching of the skimmer would have more consequences as it’s helping the tank with aeration, and if it’s a fully stocked system…

 

[sixty_reefer]

Corals will use ammonia as a nitrogen source as well, correct?

What if it's a faulty test kit? Or faulty testing procedure? OP specifically said they had "no algae" and "a spotless sand bed". I'd hesitate to make changes if everything is rolling smoothly.

The op mentioned he had a outbreak of GHA in the past, not specified if it was all gone yet. if I’m right and there’s a abundance in carbon in the tank? Most algaes will fix they’re own organic carbon from inorganic carbon in form of Co2 some species will be able to utilise the organic carbon in the water column also, you see abundance of organic carbon in the water column + ammonia can be a bad situation to be in if you have GHA already in your tank.

 

[Spare time]

Assuming that was the skimmer stripping the nitrates, would you prefer switching of the skimmer to dose nitrates? I believe switching of the skimmer would have more consequences as it’s helping the tank with aeration, and if it’s a fully stocked system…

I am suggesting to add a phosphate remover instead.

 

[konatown]

Assuming that was the skimmer stripping the nitrates, would you prefer switching of the skimmer to dose nitrates? I believe switching of the skimmer would have more consequences as it’s helping the tank with aeration, and if it’s a fully stocked system…

This is one reason I haven’t completely turn off skimming as I need the aeration.

The op mentioned he had a outbreak of GHA in the past, not specified if it was all gone yet. if I’m right and there’s a abundance in carbon in the tank? Most algaes will fix they’re own organic carbon from inorganic carbon in form of Co2 some species will be able to utilise the organic carbon in the water column also, you see abundance of organic carbon in the water column + ammonia can be a bad situation to be in if you have GHA already in your tank.

This is a new tank, I’ve fully reset. I used very live rock from an established system. And new sand.

 

[Spare time]

I’ve been trying to leave the skimmer off some lately to see what happens.

What I was trying to say is that I think you just need a phosphate remover. You can mix carbon in a bag with gfo and do that. You could also get a tiny reactor and just use gfo. If your phosphates are not aggressive, it only takes a pinch

 

[JCM]

The op mentioned he had a outbreak of GHA in the past, not specified if it was all gone yet. if I’m right and there’s a abundance in carbon in the tank? Most algaes will fix they’re own organic carbon from inorganic carbon in form of Co2 some species will be able to utilise the organic carbon in the water column also, you see abundance of organic carbon in the water column + ammonia can be a bad situation to be in if you have GHA already in your tank.

I took that as he had a hair algae outbreak in a previous tank.