No nitrates high phosphates.

[The Opinionated Reefer]

This just means that you have more than enough surface area for the de-nitrifying bacteria to live on than your bioload can produce nitrates. You don't need really need measurable nitrates, its just an indication of not enough surface for your bioload. If your not happy with your PO4 levels then do something to slowly lower them. Be assured that if you have fish then you will have enough nitrogen for your corals.

 

[jda]

no3 levels are a product of completing the nitrogen cycle, or not. Most tanks cannot yet, or at all, so the no3 can rise. Most people see these rising no3 levels as a detriment and notice bad things happening in their tanks - some corals thrive while some suffer... mixed bag of results. Some no3 levels are low because the tank can develop enough anoxic zones to have bacteria that can turn no3 into N gas... or fuges or some other way to export nitrogen.

There are some rare circumstances where low no3 levels can actually mean that there is too little nitrogen in the tank, but these are usually fallow/fishless situations or extreme lack of feedings. Even in these cases, most want to add nitrate, but this does not do much since most corals cannot take nitrogen from no3 and those that can have to convert it back to ammonia which uses a lot of energy.

Some hobbyists keep no3 and po4 at moderate levels. This seems to work both ways, but it is still the feedings that get nitrogen and phosphorous to the corals and not the slightly higher levels.

Hosts can recycle building blocks for their symbionts. You only really need new building blocks to grow new tissue (what proteins are used for). This does not require a lot. Once you have a surplus of either N or P, you have enough... more does not do anything for the corals. Higher no3 and po4 levels, as waste products, can growth-limit dinos and cyano, so some people do use them for this... but most misunderstand and think that they are allowing more competing things to grow with no3 and 25 and po4 at .2 when those competing things likely had enough no3 and po4 at .1 and 1-5 ppb if they were feeding.

There was a long nitrate/nitrogen thread in the chemistry forum not long ago. It got sidetracked a few times and had some good input from a few actual scientists... I can give you the cliff notes version or 2 things... 1). Dr. RHF is of the opinion that having a slight amount of no3 probably shows that you have an excess of nitrogen in other forms (like around 1-2 ppm) and 2). that nothing in your tank other than anoxic bacteria actually NEEDS nitrate.

Feed a lot, export a lot. This has always worked and always will. Keep the building blocks coming in all of the available forms.

 

[billyo2811]

no3 levels are a product of completing the nitrogen cycle, or not. Most tanks cannot yet, or at all, so the no3 can rise. Most people see these rising no3 levels as a detriment and notice bad things happening in their tanks - some corals thrive while some suffer... mixed bag of results. Some no3 levels are low because the tank can develop enough anoxic zones to have bacteria that can turn no3 into N gas... or fuges or some other way to export nitrogen.

There are some rare circumstances where low no3 levels can actually mean that there is too little nitrogen in the tank, but these are usually fallow/fishless situations or extreme lack of feedings. Even in these cases, most want to add nitrate, but this does not do much since most corals cannot take nitrogen from no3 and those that can have to convert it back to ammonia which uses a lot of energy.

Some hobbyists keep no3 and po4 at moderate levels. This seems to work both ways, but it is still the feedings that get nitrogen and phosphorous to the corals and not the slightly higher levels.

Hosts can recycle building blocks for their symbionts. You only really need new building blocks to grow new tissue (what proteins are used for). This does not require a lot. Once you have a surplus of either N or P, you have enough... more does not do anything for the corals. Higher no3 and po4 levels, as waste products, can growth-limit dinos and cyano, so some people do use them for this... but most misunderstand and think that they are allowing more competing things to grow with no3 and 25 and po4 at .2 when those competing things likely had enough no3 and po4 at .1 and 1-5 ppb if they were feeding.

There was a long nitrate/nitrogen thread in the chemistry forum not long ago. It got sidetracked a few times and had some good input from a few actual scientists... I can give you the cliff notes version or 2 things... 1). Dr. RHF is of the opinion that having a slight amount of no3 probably shows that you have an excess of nitrogen in other forms (like around 1-2 ppm) and 2). that nothing in your tank other than anoxic bacteria actually NEEDS nitrate.

Feed a lot, export a lot. This has always worked and always will. Keep the building blocks coming in all of the available forms.

Thanks for the input, makes a lot of sense now. I’ll see how I go feeding more have to find a way to export more. Might have to do water changes alot more as the tank is 20g cube

 

[jda]

With a 20g cube, you could do 50% water changes every few weeks for a box of IO salt, some RODI cost and a bit to heat. A single ICP test is more than this, not to mention the cost of additives, shipping and all of that. I would never recommend a testing-and-dosing regime on a tank this small unless it is just fun for the hobbyist to tinker with it... which is a good reason since fun is the purpose of the hobby.

If you just know that nitrate is not nitrogen, phosphate is not phosphorous and that none of these are energy or food, then you are well ahead of most reefers.

 

[billyo2811]

With a 20g cube, you could do 50% water changes every few weeks for a box of IO salt, some RODI cost and a bit to heat. A single ICP test is more than this, not to mention the cost of additives, shipping and all of that. I would never recommend a testing-and-dosing regime on a tank this small unless it is just fun for the hobbyist to tinker with it... which is a good reason since fun is the purpose of the hobby.

If you just know that nitrate is not nitrogen, phosphate is not phosphorous and that none of these are energy or food, then you are well ahead of most reefers.

When you say IO you mean instant ocean I’m guessing. I might even do 10-15% a few times a week along side my skimming and see how I go. Atleats I know no nitrates is not an issue now hahaha. Corals seem to be happy with high po4 but some lack growth which could be from that. I need to test my ro as I just changed my source as my other shop closed.