No Sand = No Cyano

[echopiece]

O started this tank with 50/50 live and dry rock and the sand was "live" and I rinsed the sand. It's 6 months old. the cyano wasn't the reason I removed the sand. The reason was my nitrates were at 40 and I have a super over-sized skimmer and siphon the bed every water change. My nitrates dropped after I removed the sand and I also noticed the cyano did not return. Oh my gosh the sand was so nasty that I took out even w/ regular maintenance.

My previous tank had high nitrates too and I had a sand bed then. My current tank is BB and I was getting NO3 up to 50! Started dosing NOPOX and got it down below 10. That being said, I don't think sand is 100% cause to high nitrates. I am using TBS live rock, and have a high rated skimmer pulling tons of gunk. Still amazes me that my nitrates got that high, I even had my LFS check my water too. I have 10 fish in a 100 gal.

 

[john.m.cole3]

100 GAL BB here with a large marinepure block in the sump and I just recently started seeing cyano in my system. Tank is about 8 months old. Cyano is only apparent on the rocks, none on the tank bottom. I'm thinking my cyano was caused from dosing NOPOX to reduce my nitrate levels. I suppose I could back off of NOPOX and see if the cyano recedes.

I also have the block in my sump. It had cyano on the very top of it, but the cyano went away after removing my sand. No block maintenance. I must be experiencing some anecdotal outcomes.

 

[john.m.cole3]

My previous tank had high nitrates too and I had a sand bed then. My current tank is BB and I was getting NO3 up to 50! Started dosing NOPOX and got it down below 10. That being said, I don't think sand is 100% cause to high nitrates. I am using TBS live rock, and have a high rated skimmer pulling tons of gunk. Still amazes me that my nitrates got that high, I even had my LFS check my water too. I have 10 fish in a 100 gal.

That's crazy. What kind of fish?

 

[erk]

I'm currently running a bare bottom plastic tub until I finish setting up my new tank. I get plenty cyano if I don't provide enough nutrient export aka vodka dosing. As long as I dose enough vodka and keep the skimmer clean, everything is real nice.

 

[echopiece]

That's crazy. What kind of fish?

I'm sorry, 11 fish...

2 clowns
1 bangai cardinal
1 lyretail anthias
1 firefish
1 corris wrasse
3 chromis
1 tomini tang (fairly small)
1 swallowtail angel

 

[john.m.cole3]

Ok, yeah you have small fishes . I was wondering if you had 10 tangs, lol. what do you use for nutrient export?

Reason I am asking is bc I absolutely do not like cyano and can't put my finger on why we have it in our tanks. I only thought reefers w/ sand beds had it bc all of the tanks I saw being posted in the peroxide vs cyano thread had a sand bed. Now I'm puzzled. still going to stay BB though

 

[twilliard]

Hi John glad to hear all is well.
People are overlooking the main components in regards to the relationship between sand and cyanobacteria. Dioxides and sulfides.
It's not the sand, well at all. It's what inhabits the sand that produces these byproducts.

Education is needed across the board when it comes to cyanobacteria's. Period

 

[echopiece]

Ok, yeah you have small fishes . I was wondering if you had 10 tangs, lol. what do you use for nutrient export?

I have a good skimmer, lots of flow, marinepure block, recently been using NOPOX and water changes

 

[1stNoel]

I HAD cyanobacteria on my sand bed and on my marinepure brick in my sump. I hated it. Peroxide dosing dialed it back some, but never got rid of it. I removed my sand bed last weekend, and there is no sight of it on my block or rock. Sweet!!!

How many people have a bare bottom tank AND have cyanobacteria???

I'm your huckleberry. I have a barebottom and a lot of cyano.

Can't pinpoint the cause, as nitrates are barely detectable and phosphates are low as well.

About 3 months ago I had an algae bloom and high nitrates, so I started using biopellets. Biopellets didn't really do much, and they caused a huge cyano outbreak. Used ChemiClean and the cyano went away temporarily. Switched to NoPox. That knocked out my nitrates, but I still have issues with cyano.

No issues with fish or corals.

 

[twilliard]

I'm your huckleberry. I have a barebottom and a lot of cyano.

Can't pinpoint the cause, as nitrates are barely detectable and phosphates are low as well.

About 3 months ago I had an algae bloom and high nitrates, so I started using biopellets. Biopellets didn't really do much, and they caused a huge cyano outbreak. Used ChemiClean and the cyano went away temporarily. Switched to NoPox. That knocked out my nitrates, but I still have issues with cyano.

No issues with fish or corals.

The only cause for cyanobacteria is introduction.

 

[1stNoel]

The only cause for cyanobacteria is introduction.

Then my tank is in dire need of "Memento"-type amnesia.

What's the cure?

 

[Cory]

Its not the sand its the organics. Removing the sand removes the majority of organics.

 

[Boom]

I have a very shallow sand bed, even bare in some areas. I had a recent bout with cyano especially in the corner glass and sand where the return water comes into DT. My refractometer broke (again), and salinity was high.
I also dosed vodka and sugar with ATO. Chemiclean 2 weeks ago helped but didn't completely eradicate. I slowly reduced salinity to back to 1.025, stopped all carbon dosing, and I am using a 1/2 dilution of kalk in ATO to minimize LOCAL swings in salinity and alkalinity. Things are under better control. These pics show today's cyano streaks after a heavy feeding and skimmer off all day.
BTW my sump is BB and the cyano was ridiculous in there at the time.

 

[Boom]

Forgot to say I had also increased high light time by one hour before the cyano outbreak.

I'm now back to 10 hrs with 2x54w T5s.

 

[Cary Hover]

O started this tank with 50/50 live and dry rock and the sand was "live" and I rinsed the sand. It's 6 months old. the cyano wasn't the reason I removed the sand. The reason was my nitrates were at 40 and I have a super over-sized skimmer and siphon the bed every water change. My nitrates dropped after I removed the sand and I also noticed the cyano did not return. Oh my gosh the sand was so nasty that I took out even w/ regular maintenance.

Check your phosphate levels.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

True, sand's ability to house thousands of square feet for bacteria to live on is a benefit. I feel that it's ability to store detritus out weighs it's bacteria housing abilities. So many reefers treat their sand beds like a toxic waste zone... "you can move your tank but DON'T disturb the sand bed, or else...", "every time your stir your sand you will have a mini cycle", "my sand bed is what keeps my nitrates in check". The list goes on. To me, sand is a toxic waste zone and has no place in my tank. A DSB can produce denitrification, but at what risk? The bottom layer of the DSB is the denitrification zone. What happens if the upper layers are disturbed?

you should come over to my house. I have two dsb in the 55, on in the dt one in the sump.
my 30 cube is a baby dsb, only just 2 in.
I got no cyano. well once in awhile.
my talbot shredded the dsb in the 55 dt. I mean shredded. holes under every rock. deep too. glass got green, refugium blew up with growth and my only acro in the 55 exploded with growth and so did all the easy SPS. stylo pocci cyph etc.

weird huh.

oh i poke the dsb too. and rescape. nothing dies. and i dont have detritus cuz i have worms. and snails. lots. and good flow that blows it down to my funky sump.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

100 GAL BB here with a large marinepure block in the sump and I just recently started seeing cyano in my system. Tank is about 8 months old. Cyano is only apparent on the rocks, none on the tank bottom. I'm thinking my cyano was caused from dosing NOPOX to reduce my nitrate levels. I suppose I could back off of NOPOX and see if the cyano recedes.

your tank is only 8 months old. if you started dry rock, it gonna take some time. and yea the nopox fed only the cyano. and the highlight too. good new is the cyano will eat the no and po too.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Then my tank is in dire need of "Memento"-type amnesia.

What's the cure?

better bacteria. imo. not a cure, just better health.

 

[Ike]

Bare bottom on my new tank and have a cyano bacteria worse than I've ever had with any tank in my 30 years in the hobby.

 

[Scott.h]

True, sand's ability to house thousands of square feet for bacteria to live on is a benefit. I feel that it's ability to store detritus out weighs it's bacteria housing abilities. So many reefers treat their sand beds like a toxic waste zone... "you can move your tank but DON'T disturb the sand bed, or else...", "every time your stir your sand you will have a mini cycle", "my sand bed is what keeps my nitrates in check". The list goes on. To me, sand is a toxic waste zone and has no place in my tank. A DSB can produce denitrification, but at what risk? The bottom layer of the DSB is the denitrification zone. What happens if the upper layers are disturbed?

Id have to disagree. I have a plastic stick I use to mix the sand on an almost daily basis when I feed. When I placed my rock work I left room in the back of the tank between the rock and glass so I could stir behind also, although I don't do behind the rocks daily. I've never had an issue. I have a second tank that's been bare bottom for about a year and I've found the bare bottom to be harder to deal with. Aside, it doesn't look as nice. Despite putting more effort into a dank with much less bio load it looks neglected. It seems like in general, despite diligent weekly efforts there is always so much more detritus to deal with. I'm not digging it.