No water change sps tank?

[ksed]

Per

No.

"A second, more comprehensive skimmate chemical analysis was pursued to address this concern.

Skimmate Liquid Analysis
The bottom line, however, is that the skimmate liquid contains mostly the common inorganic ions that constitute the major ions in seawater. Only a small amount of this material can be arguably assigned to dissolved organic carbon, DOC.

Where was this information located in his article?

 

[TbyZ]

Per


Where was this information located in his article?

Keep scrolling down to
Skimmate Liquid Analysis

 

[gcarroll]

Skimmate is the solid and liquid in the skimmer cup. Not just the liquid.

 

[TbyZ]

Skimmate is the solid and liquid in the skimmer cup. Not just the liquid.

Conclusions
The chemical/elemental composition of skimmate generated by an H&S 200-1260 skimmer on a 175-gallon reef tank over the course of several days or a week had some surprises. Only a minor amount of the skimmate (solid + liquid) could be attributed to organic carbon (TOC); about 29%, and most of that material was not water soluble, i.e., was not dissolved organic carbon.

 

[gcarroll]

So the 30% number that keeps being thrown around is from that?

Is there data showing what percentage of the matter absorbed by activated carbon is TOC?

 

[ksed]

Are you only concerned about water soluble DOC?

 

[TbyZ]

So the 30% number that keeps being thrown around is from that?

Well that was a pretty good analysis.

This article too.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/

 

[TbyZ]

Are you only concerned about water soluble DOC?

Well skimmers do remove some Particulate organics, as well as pods & other critters benificial to an aquarium

 

[ksed]

Conclusions
The chemical/elemental composition of skimmate generated by an H&S 200-1260 skimmer on a 175-gallon reef tank over the course of several days or a week had some surprises. Only a minor amount of the skimmate (solid + liquid) could be attributed to organic carbon (TOC); about 29%, and most of that material was not water soluble, i.e., was not dissolved organic carbon.

So Ken must be contradicting? What do you think of my earlier post?

 

[NewSaltWaterGuy]

Something that I am interested in, or wish to have answered is:

Can you have a tank that is completely... what's the word I'm looking for.... controlled I guess, by beneficial bacteria, corals, and fish? like a normal small ecosystem?

 

[gcarroll]

Well that was a pretty good analysis.

This article too.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/

So is it that skimmers remove 30% of the TOCs from the water?
Or is it that 30% of the skimmate is TOCs?

Those are very different things

 

[TbyZ]

So Ken must be contradicting? What do you think of my earlier post?

I don't understand what on earth you're on about.
Feldman has made it clear that skimmers remove only about 30% of TOC & almost no DOC.

Keep using a skimmer if it makes you feel good, by all means.

 

[TbyZ]

So is it that skimmers remove 30% of the TOCs from the water?
Or is it that 30% of the skimmate is TOCs?

Those are very different things

Both.
Have a read.

 

[jda]

It is easy to test this. Grab 10G of tankwater from your tank. Put some copper in it. Get a test reading. The organics in the water will grab up all (the vast majority) of the copper pretty quickly. Run a skimmer on there. If they can only remove 70% of the organics, then 70% of the copper will never leave the tank. However, all of the copper ends up leaving. The skimmer eventually gets it all, even if it is only at 30% per pass. The copper will get to zero as the organics that it is bound to are removed.

If you do this, make sure that you get a test kit that will detect free and bound copper.

 

[TbyZ]

It is easy to test this. Grab 10G of tankwater from your tank. Put some copper in it. Get a test reading. The organics in the water will grab up all (the vast majority) of the copper pretty quickly. Run a skimmer on there. If they can only remove 70% of the organics, then 70% of the copper will never leave the tank. However, all of the copper ends up leaving. The skimmer eventually gets it all, even if it is only at 30% per pass. The copper will get to zero as the organics that it is bound to are removed.

If you do this, make sure that you get a test kit that will detect free and bound copper.

Its a bit more complicated than that.
I think I'll rely on Feldman's independent findings.

 

[gcarroll]

Both.
Have a read.

I have which is why I asked the questions that all have avoided.

So what happens after that 20-40% is removed. Does the skimmer no longer work?

Does the skimmer maintain the system at being 20-40% free of organics?

If the skimmer is capable of keeping your water at a particular lever of organics, what percentage of organics is being removed from that point forward?

If we are to interpret Ken's study as the way most do.... A skimmer can only remove 30%, that means as more organics are introduced, the skimmer will only remove 30% of those organics. This eventually will yield an over abundance of organics in the tank, right?

IMO, that doesn't happen. Why? Because once it gets to that point at which the skimmer can maintain, it begins removing much closer to 100% of the orgainic levels being introduced. Am I wrong in this assessment or does the study prove me wrong?

 

[jda]

...or it is not. Sometimes the easiest answer is the best one. It takes a far more complicated answer to figure out what happened to the copper than it being skimmed out while attached to organics.

 

[ksed]

I don't understand what on earth you're on about.
Feldman has made it clear that skimmers remove only about 30% of TOC & almost no DOC.

Keep using a skimmer if it makes you feel good, by all means.

Without getting upset would you be able to explain what he means here. Thanks

 

[TbyZ]

I have which is why I asked the questions that all have avoided.

In a real reef tank, over a period of time where organics were added to the tank, skimmers removed about 30% of accumulated TOC, & the analysis of the skimate showed it was almost totally Particulate Organic Compounds.

 

[TbyZ]

Without getting upset would you be able to explain what he means here. Thanks

Without getting upset would you be able to explain what he means here. Thanks

You don't seem to comprehend his very next statement regarding the section you have circled.

Quote - "A second, more comprehensive skimmate chemical analysis was pursued to address this concern."

That analysis showed -

Skimmate Liquid Analysis.

The bottom line, however, is that the skimmate liquid contains mostly the common inorganic ions that constitute the major ions in seawater. Only a small amount of this material can be arguablyassigned to dissolved organiccarbon, DOC.