No water changes, heresy?

[Joedubyk]

None of the truly awesome 'no water change tanks' are truly that way to the letter. They will, and do, change some water, just not on regular schedules. They are truly limited water change tanks. The only ones that have been running for a long time (years and years) also work very hard to do other things like supplement and test - Dutch Synthetic comes to mind, but it costs more and takes more time than changing water for most folks, so it is more of the lifestyle than a cost or time saver.

I also question the people who don't do them and say their corals look great. Not question, but I'm guessing they are mostly LPS and softy tanks that require much less maintenance

 

[jda]

I have been doing this for a long time. I have rebooted my 240g about six/seven times since it will get overgrown in three years when starting with frags. Not changing water is OK if you are willing to do what you are missing with the water changes... and I mostly mean trace elements and the like since rock/sand should take care of your nitrate and you can buy media anymore to take care of the phosphate... and lets assume that you have an export mechanism for metals and other bad stuff like a good skimmer.

When I had wall-to-wall Z&P, some of the melters would melt without water changes, but once I did them, they bounced right back. Sure, about 80% never cared, but the other 20% sure did. These are the ones that people stuggle with and complain of melting. Same was true of the acropora - about 80% could not care, but the other 20% would STN without regular water changes or COMPREHENSIVE elemental additions.

I think that most of what you see is people who keep the 80% who are the ones who swear that they have never done a water change, but I look for what is NOT in the tanks, like the other 20% of the corals that are harder to keep. Unfortunately, most of these posters do not have the breath and depth to know what they are not keeping and why. You can have a great tank with the 80%, but it is not the same to people who know... kinda like this new Corvette being good enough for 80% of the people who want a rear engine car, but people who know will still always want something more exotic.

...so I am convinced that if I follow the Dutch Synthetic to the TEE that I could not change water routinely (again, they will do it when they need to). However, that is just so much work and time, it is easier for me to dump a bag of IO into to some water, flip a switch for a pump and heater, come back in a day and add some acid and wait another day before carrying some hose 60 feet and looking at my phone for 4-5 minutes while some pumps do the hard work.

Not changing water out of laziness will lead to disaster eventually - I believe this fully. ...but if you purposefully and deliberately plan and scheme to not change water routinely, then it can certainly work. How can you tell the difference? If you are spending more time and money NOT changing water, then you might be on the deliberate and purposeful side.

 

[K7BMG]

This was grown from a one inch frag and 4 years of no water changes. I’m not saying I suggest it, but it can be done, and with most types of corals. No supplements, just flake food and a CA reactor. Anyone that says water changes or supplements are necessary for healthy corals is flat out wrong.

With respect.

This works for YOUR tank. People who do WC are not wrong.
But water changes for the majority do the job, and work well.

 

[Ike]

With respect.

This works for YOUR tank. People who do WC are not wrong.
But water changes for the majority do the job, and work well.

Great, but I never said water changes are the wrong approach, nor that people shouldn't do them. In fact, I believe they're a good part of maintenance for most people with little potential for harm as long as you're using good makeup water. However, the people that believe that frequent water changes are a requirement for long term success and a healthy system are wrong.

 

[X-37B]

Interesting thoughts and experience.
I run the DSR EZ method. I am not lazy and it takes all of 5 minutes a day to run.
You are right as I set this up from day one.
And I do not do any type of regular water changes.
I wanted to try this method as I have done water changes on all previois tanks with success.
That said my system is 95% acros. I run my frag tank the same way.
I do replace water when I remove detrius from the bottom once a month. Maybe a gallon or 2.
About a quart a week for skimmer replacement.
Time will tell how long I can go with no e"scheduled" water change.
I am setup if I need to and can do easily 50% at any given time. Great backup lol.
Alot of it has to do with experience too.
So far im happy with the current results.
Not here to ague the point but to discuss if people are interested.
I have been told by
every lfs and local reefers that it cant be done.
When they see my tank they will question it but still "argue" the point.
Onlt one lfs runs a carx on a very large system. and most local reefers dose. The ones that run carx dont believe me when I say no ph or controller. Cant be done they say as it will crash anytime.
They are the ones that are lazy and dont know their systems and have issues.
Same with alk, as I run 7 to 7.3 as of late.
They say to low, lol.
Ok way off subject and I wanted to thank you @jda for all the info you put out on carx setup.
I have an apex that I was going to use for mainly the carx and its still in the closet lol.
Your carx setup makes running one as simple as my, I will restate, "no regular water change system".

 

[jda]

I also forgot - sorry for the many posts... that those who are rigid and will not change water after a treatment, or something extraordinary, also will fail. Nobody wants flukes, but if your fish get them, you use some Prazi and it requires a 20% water change, most "no water change people" will do this. ...some hard metals get in your tank and most will change some water. The health of the system comes before not changing any water and nearly all will gladly do some if they need to.

For the people reading this and thinking a hard-fast "never, ever with a water change and I never need to buy salt again" then this is not true. As mentioned above, just dumping the skimmer cup will lower the salinity over time... and so will salt creep.

 

[ca1ore]

Is doing NO water change heresy? No, of course not. Although the majority of reefers do water changes, some do not. Some of those that do not even have nice tanks. My view has always been that the effort required to do water changes is quite modest, and may actually pale in comparison to the ‘heroic’ efforts non-changers go to to keep water chemistry balanced. I do think that water changing Is no longer the OCD topic it was in the formative days of this hobby. Purely anecdotal on my part, but I’d wager that as a % folks do less water changing now than in the past .... I know I do (I did almost 50% water changes in the 1990s, down to about 15% monthly now).

Why is that? Water changes accomplish two things, waste dilution and element replenishment. The tools to manage waste export have improved exponentially in the last couple of decades so water changes are no longer as important to dilution as they used to be. Although it’s been something of a growth ‘crawl’, the increase in CaRx usage means that many elements are now replenished without water changes, plus better testing means dosing can be done in a more targeted way .... both reduce the need for water changes. Netted, not surprising water changes are debated more today than ever before.

 

[X-37B]

Is doing NO water change heresy? No, of course not. Although the majority of reefers do water changes, some do not. Some of those that do not even have nice tanks. My view has always been that the effort required to do water changes is quite modest, and may actually pale in comparison to the ‘heroic’ efforts non-changers go to to keep water chemistry balanced. I do think that water changing Is no longer the OCD topic it was in the formative days of this hobby. Purely anecdotal on my part, but I’d wager that as a % folks do less water changing now than in the past .... I know I do (down to about 15% monthly).

No heroic efforts here.
5 minutes a day which requires a look at the tank every morning, good stuff.
Make sure carx effluent is flowing, co2 bubbling,
dose trace, and thats it.
Weekly clean Skimmer cup, add h2o to ato change filter sock.
Monthly clean 4 powerheads. Remove detrius if any. Make up 5 gallons salt and adjust kh and store in bucket
Honestly thats it.
And yes water changes if setup right take all of 10+ minutes.
For me
my way requires a hands on approach everyday which I prefer.
Hard for things to get out of control.
Again its just "my way" of running the tank.

 

[X-37B]

Did you see the recent Rev post on water changes.
Still over 66% and ingrained in the hobby, interesting.

 

[ca1ore]

I interrupt your regular programming for a public service announcement ....

Quotation marks around single words can occasionally be used for emphasis, but only when quoting a word or term someone else used. Usually, this implies that the author doesn’t agree with the use of the term.

I do this a lot and it is regularly ‘misunderstood’ (see!). Occupational hazard as I partly write for a living; perhaps I should stop.

 

[bam123]

It can be done. For long term success I would set up Automatic water changes. Not preheating the water can be sketchy as the salinity can be way off.

 

[ca1ore]

Did you see the recent Rev post on water changes.
Still over 66% and ingrained in the hobby, interesting.

Can you point me to where? I don’t doubt that a majority of reefers do water changes; my point was that folks do less as a percentage of system volume. That’s actually the more interesting question to ask.

 

[X-37B]

It can be done. For long term success I would set up Automatic water changes. Not preheating the water can be sketchy as the salinity can be way off.

Ageee! This goes against my no scheduled water change system and I would setup a gallon a day if I had the space so go figure lol.

 

[X-37B]

Can you point me to where? I don’t doubt that a majority of reefers do water changes; my point was that folks do less as a percentage of system volume. That’s actually the more interesting question to ask.

Rev posted the question today at 6:39.

 

[vetteguy53081]

 

[X-37B]

Funny! Sending out for test next month at 1 year running my no scheduled water change system.
Results will be interesting at best.
If one is required im setup to do one as a backup.

 

[LegendaryCG]

I’m of the belief it’s more about sticking to a system that is showing positive results. I rarely measure my levels but have a good amount of SPS in a mixed reef all growing well. I do a 1 gallon AWC a day. If things don’t look right then it might be time to adjust but if it’s not broke?

 

[ca1ore]

Rev posted the question today at 6:39.

LOL .. so he did. Apparently my eyesight is worse than I thought ....

 

[X-37B]

LOL .. so he did. Apparently my eyesight is worse than I thought ....

Mines not getting any better at 62 lol.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Funny! Sending out for test next month at 1 year running my no scheduled water change system.
Results will be interesting at best.
If one is required im setup to do one as a backup.

I RARELY CHANGE WATER and just exchanged water as my salinity was up a little on Saturday and added RO only. I just got my ICP on Wednesday and was very Happy with results. Mag was slightly low.