No3 and Po4 relationship help

[phixman]

I wanted to get more information on nitrates and phosphates. I know you need both of these in the tank in order for the sps to have the best coloration possible. Is it possible for corals to brown out or get pale, if for example nitrates were 0 and phosphates were .3 or nitrates 40ppm and phosphates 0?

Also, is there a way to control these or figure out how much you're adding of one or the other? or do you just have to keep feeding and test to find out how much it goes up and tune it ?

What about dosing these. I have some friends that suggest dosing these to have more control, what can I use to dose these? What about reducing these?

 

[Stickboy15]

Nitrates is a much less harmful toxin then po4 is can cause all kinds of issues especially too low I know people do 0.1-0.3 and I have never had any luck with it that low all I get is stn so I run it 0.6-0.8 and I have great colors in my sps and all is very healthy. I’ve had 5ppm to 20ppm nitrates and couldn’t tell a difference in coral color because they all looked really good so it just depends on your system

 

[phixman]

What about in regards to alkalinity, calcium and magnesium. I sometimes see people talking about how the alkalinity is too high for the current nitrates or phosphates, is there a rule for this to know how they all balance out?

 

[cracker]

phixman I dose my tank. To me it's a lot more controllable. I use Stunp remover for No3 & Seachem phosphorous for the Po4 . I'm soon to stop using the stump remover. I understand it can have impurities .

 

[jda]

Once you have some, then you have enough. These building blocks do not do "more" if you have more present. The only difference in coloration is that a deeper, darker monochromatic look under higher building blocks and a brighter, higher contrast look under lower building blocks - if your corals are colorless, dying or brown, then it is likely something else.

Throughput is also the key, not residual numbers on a test kit. I know that this is hard to measure and takes more experience and time to do correctly, but remember that lots of dosing "system" like ZEOVit have very low N and P numbers in the tank, but they have massive imports and massive exports.

There are a lot of folks who believe that having elevated P can be ok, but elevated nitrates are not so good.

I would both low, but detectable. Mine are about .1 N and .01P and everything thrives including some cyano ever now and then for a week or two.

 

[x2uranium]

Nitrates are underrated in my opinion again. Frag tank of my with phosphates over 1 ppm not .01 or .10 - 1.14 ppm to be exact in my frag tank with great colors but 0 ppm nitrate. In past tanks I have had trouble with low phos and higher above 100ppm nitrates would make my corals have stunted growth and faded growth tips. Stable everything else obv.

 

[phixman]

Well, when I first started in 2017 everyone kept suggesting to just keep my phosphates and nitrates super low. No one really explained that you need some so corals can feed on it, and that you nitrates and phosphates levels don't really matter as long as the coral are consuming it and any extra of either would simply result in algae. I can't seem to be able to raise my nitrates, and I'm wondering if it has to do with my deep sand bed.

 

[phixman]

My levels are:

Alk 7.3
Cal 395
Mag 1410
Nitrate 0

phosphate: don't know, getting more test kits, was .23 when I got back Europe September 12th, I had a lot of algae, but its all gone now,the person that looked after my tank overfeed fish flakes.
Salinity:35
temp:77.1 - 78.2
ph: 7.84 - 8.32 ( use to be 7.8-8.15) until 3 days ago when I vented the skimmer

A friend of mine suggested low light, but how can that be, I have a hydra 26hd, and my par readings should be around 200-300 on all my sps


edit: I have sps with brown areas, and colors that are pale

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yes the no3 and Po4 is low becuse of the increased surface area for bacteria a DSB provides.

Even With very low no3 on the tests you still have sources of ammoina and no3 , that’s provided by the fish and other organics breaking down.
So somtimes even at zero or low , with a moderate Fish bio load you’re still feeding the corals well.


More food for thought.


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/light-alkalinity-nutrients.319223/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...d-i-dont-know-what-to-do.210035/#post-2401666

 

[jda]

Once you have enough N and P, then you have enough. They are building blocks used to create new organic tissue... N and P are not use for energy (sugars that the zoox release provide daily energy), so having more will not mean more growth and energy. Basically, anything above zero is probably OK. Even if you are near zero, then you probably have enough if you have any amount of algae or coral growth... heavy import and heavy export is cool.

Like posted above, corals can get nitrogen from ammonia.

Deep sand bed will destroy Nitrate most of the time - the depth allows the sand on the top to be oxic and as you get deeper, then the anoxic bacteria start to develop and they use the oxygen from NO3 to function and release Nitrogen gas. A DSB is a boss at nitrate removal.

A DSB also has a lot of surface area to bind phosphate. Do not take this for granted. Eventually, it will "fill up" and not hide/mask maintenance issues. It is best to use a DSB as a buffer and still export with a fuge, heavy skimming, etc. while leaving just a bit in the tank.

 

[phixman]

How do you know if your nutrients are too low or too high for your current trace elements?
Also, will high nutrients cause brown out of sps ,and low nutrients cause pale to bleach?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

If the corals are colorful and bright and growing , and the nutrients high, you’ve hit a balance.

Pale can be too many things. High light , high alk , young tank , too much flow.

Trace elements are debateable.
For example , the best tank I’ve ever seen is sps acro Dom, calcium reactor and instant ocean. Fish food.

 

[phixman]

What can cause some sps to brown out with good flow and low nutrients like a reading of 0 for nitrates. I have some sps that are browned out and others that are a little pale in color with some parts that are browned out.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

What can cause some sps to brown out with good flow and low nutrients .

Stress , light , flow , alk, ph , being a prima Donna coral ,young tank , spending too much on it, disco
From the leds.

In general , browning in consider to be too much food so you get a build up of sugars in the system and the coral can’t process it.
Ime , somtimes it just happens. I had some of my acro frags for years then on day they all started to take off. Literally some just grew like weeds on the sand bed.
It felt like maturity was the issue.

I’m also kinda old School. I feed the fish healthy and Blast the tank with light.
My Po4 was under .25 when I last checked it in 2017.

 

[phixman]

I had redbugs around June and dripped them them in rx and rodi, could this be a cause even though its been 5 months or so ?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Probably not.

 

[phixman]

Possible too little light then ?

 

[Rick Mathew]

Here is an interesting post you might want to check out

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nitrates-and-phosphates-what-does-the-latest-science-say.464721/