NO3/PO4 always 0

[Michel]

Hello everyone,


I have (sort of) a problem with my nano reef.
My 10g nano reef is doing really good. All water parameters are good and stable, the tank looks awesome, corals and fish are doing great.
but the only problem is that I always have 0 NO3/PO4.

Ive had some dinos showing up recently, but I got rid of it with a temperarly UV light but I dont want it to come back.

I have a picky yellow clown goby which likes to eat like 3 bites a time so I feed 2-3 times a day to keep him fat.
I also have a lot of nassarius snail babys on the ground and I want them to eat also, so every time I feed a lot so im sure enough food will sink to the sand for them to eat.

I have also tried dosing nitrates and phosphates. About an hour after dosing I got the right values, but the next day it will be 0 again.

Can someome explain me why this is happening? I really cant understand why its always 0 even when im feeding so dang much....

btw: I have never had a skimmer on this tank, only a little piece of macro algea on top of the rocks that I keep removing but it keeps comming back ;Jawdrop



Some picture of my 10g:

 

[Dan_P]

Hello everyone,


I have (sort of) a problem with my nano reef.
My 10g nano reef is doing really good. All water parameters are good and stable, the tank looks awesome, corals and fish are doing great.
but the only problem is that I always have 0 NO3/PO4.

Ive had some dinos showing up recently, but I got rid of it with a temperarly UV light but I dont want it to come back.

I have a picky yellow clown goby which likes to eat like 3 bites a time so I feed 2-3 times a day to keep him fat.
I also have a lot of nassarius snail babys on the ground and I want them to eat also, so every time I feed a lot so im sure enough food will sink to the sand for them to eat.

I have also tried dosing nitrates and phosphates. About an hour after dosing I got the right values, but the next day it will be 0 again.

Can someome explain me why this is happening? I really cant understand why its always 0 even when im feeding so dang much....

btw: I have never had a skimmer on this tank, only a little piece of macro algea on top of the rocks that I keep removing but it keeps comming back ;Jawdrop



Some picture of my 10g:

Are your coral consuming nitrate?

 

[Jekyl]

What are you feeding? What type of nutrient export?

 

[Oldreefer44]

With everything looking that good I would not worry about it. Likely have some but either not enough to detect or is a testing issue.

 

[Michel]

I mainly feed flakes (grinded into small pieces) 2-3 times a day. I dont have an export other than the corals and a 10% water change once a month

 

[BeTreyed]

I mean, it sounds like things are going well. Your algae and softies are probably utilizing those nutrients for you. We know the algae is growing well, how about the corals, you seeing good growth?

 

[Michel]

With everything looking that good I would not worry about it. Likely have some but either not enough to detect or is a testing issue.

I have tested both with 2 different brand tests included Hanna checker for phosphates and all tests are 0.

I just dont want to deal with dinos again because last time my turbo snails started constantly falling of the glass and I thought they would die verry soon. After removing the dinos with an UV licht my snails are happy again

 

[AJsReef]

Hard to tell by the picture but that macro algae looks like Caulerpa which is very efficient at N/P uptake. If everything is growing there isn’t much to be worried about other than Dinos. Since you saw Dinos attempt to establish I would continue dosing until you reach detectable levels as an attempt to prevent them moving forward.

Fwiw, it took me several weeks to get to detectable levels through daily dosing and testing. I still haven’t dialed in my PO4 dosage even a month later.

Side note, Hanna Nitrate test is really useful is you’re hanging in the low range

 

[malacoda]

It looks like everything is doing great.

And I would venture to say that, although your test kits are reading near 0 residual levels (only test precise enough to show if it's actually 0.00 is an ICP test) of PO4 and NO3 in the water it would seem there is enough of them going into the water to get consumed and keep everything happy and in balance.

So, why mess with something that is working?

Better to let it keep thriving ... versus throwing something else out of whack by dosing for something that may never even happen again?

I know where you're coming from...

I had dinos too. And now that my tank is maturing and balancing my residual NO3 has gone to 0 (as in 0.00 per ATI ICP testing) and my P04 is also slowly falling (currently at 0.12 and gradually dropping).

And I do occasionally get the nervous itch to dose some nitrate (and even a little phosphate) out fear of seeing dinos again.

But like yours, my tank is doing great. So I'll stick my routine, keep my UV running, and just let it be.

If, and ONLY IF, I actually see dinos again will I dose nitrate and phosphate.

Better to fix a problem than to create one.

 

[Michel]

I mean, it sounds like things are going well. Your algae and softies are probably utilizing those nutrients for you. We know the algae is growing well, how about the corals, you seeing good growth?

yes, the corals are growing good and are splitting heads pretty often.

Hard to tell by the picture but that macro algae looks like Caulerpa which is very efficient at N/P uptake.

I also have the feeling it had something to do with the algae. Thats why I have removed it completely about 3-4 times but it keeps comming back... some off the roots are really stuck to the rocks and when you try to remove it, some peices always stay behind.

some pictures of the algae (lights are out so the pictures arent that great):

 

[Michel]

It looks like everything is doing great.

And I would venture to say that, although your test kits are reading near 0 residual levels (only test precise enough to show if it's actually 0.00 is an ICP test) of PO4 and NO3 in the water it would seem there is enough of them going into the water to get consumed and keep everything happy and in balance.

So, why mess with something that is working?

Better to let it keep thriving ... versus throwing something else out of whack by dosing for something that may never even happen again?

I know where you're coming from...

I had dinos too. And now that my tank is maturing and balancing my residual NO3 has gone to 0 (as in 0.00 per ATI ICP testing) and my P04 is also slowly falling (currently at 0.12 and gradually dropping).

And I do occasionally get the nervous itch to dose some nitrate (and even a little phosphate) out fear of seeing dinos again.

But like yours, my tank is doing great. So I'll stick my routine, keep my UV running, and just let it be.

If, and ONLY IF, I actually see dinos again will I dose nitrate and phosphate.

Better to fix a problem than to create one.

You say you just keep the UV running but thats the problem I have. The UV worked really good for me against the dinos, after installing the UV almost all the dinos were gone in less than a week. But the problem is thats its a small AIO nano on my desk and I can't just keep an UV light running on it. Or it will be really ugly on my desk. So maybe its best to just leave it like it is and once in a while install the UV for a few days.

 

[nonagon13]

Hello everyone,


I have (sort of) a problem with my nano reef.
My 10g nano reef is doing really good. All water parameters are good and stable, the tank looks awesome, corals and fish are doing great.
but the only problem is that I always have 0 NO3/PO4.

Ive had some dinos showing up recently, but I got rid of it with a temperarly UV light but I dont want it to come back.

I have a picky yellow clown goby which likes to eat like 3 bites a time so I feed 2-3 times a day to keep him fat.
I also have a lot of nassarius snail babys on the ground and I want them to eat also, so every time I feed a lot so im sure enough food will sink to the sand for them to eat.

I have also tried dosing nitrates and phosphates. About an hour after dosing I got the right values, but the next day it will be 0 again.

Can someome explain me why this is happening? I really cant understand why its always 0 even when im feeding so dang much....

btw: I have never had a skimmer on this tank, only a little piece of macro algea on top of the rocks that I keep removing but it keeps comming back ;Jawdrop



Some picture of my 10g:

I like the look of the macro algae included in the setup. Nice tank!

I had a dino problem and I believe it was because my nitrates and phosphates were zero, which also explained some of the lack of growth I was having in the corals. (I was underfeeding the tank to combat a nuisance algae, which I learned was not working). I increased feeding and manually removed the dinos with a turkey baster. I started dosing Red Sea Reef Energy AB+ as well. My sps are growing now and the dinos are mostly gone. I have noticed some diatoms in one part of the tank. I have also put a small UV in the sump to be totally clear. My nitrates finally just read .2 ppm but my phosphates are still reading zero. I don't know if thats OK or not. My euphyllia are actually having a problem with receding tissue but the sps are happy so :shrug:

 

[malacoda]

You say you just keep the UV running but thats the problem I have. The UV worked really good for me against the dinos, after installing the UV almost all the dinos were gone in less than a week. But the problem is thats its a small AIO nano on my desk and I can't just keep an UV light running on it. Or it will be really ugly on my desk. So maybe its best to just leave it like it is and once in a while install the UV for a few days.

In that case, I wouldn't even run the UV every few days. I'd just put it away in a closet and keep running the tanks as is.

You may not ever see the dinos again.

But, if you do, just pull it out and run for a few days like you did last time until they're gone.

IMO, then and only then ... e.g. after they've proven they'll be more than a one time occurrence ... would it be worthwhile to keep dosing phosphate and nitrate to get your numbers higher.

The trouble with dosing P and N,. especially on a younger tanks, is that the rock and sand can act like sinks ... absorbing all the extra P and N you're adding ... right up until ... all of a sudden ... they can't absorb any more. Then they can start to leach them back out.

Then you go from being the position of having too little P and N to opposite problem of having too much P and N ... which could create a whole new set of problems.

Right now, That's probably why you see your P and N numbers going back to 0 a few hours after dosing. They're being absorbed into the rock and sand ... along with a bit being taken in by the algae and corals.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Whats the problem? Lol
Tank looks great. Your numbers are not 0. They are so low they are undetectable. I need to go read this but what tests?
D

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

You are <1
-d

 

[mdb_talon]

Better to fix a problem than to create one.

Better to prevent a problem than fix one...

 

[jarviz]

In that case, I wouldn't even run the UV every few days. I'd just put it away in a closet and keep running the tanks as is.

You may not ever see the dinos again.

But, if you do, just pull it out and run for a few days like you did last time until they're gone.

IMO, then and only then ... e.g. after they've proven they'll be more than a one time occurrence ... would it be worthwhile to keep dosing phosphate and nitrate to get your numbers higher.

The trouble with dosing P and N,. especially on a younger tanks, is that the rock and sand can act like sinks ... absorbing all the extra P and N you're adding ... right up until ... all of a sudden ... they can't absorb any more. Then they can start to leach them back out.

Then you go from being the position of having too little P and N to opposite problem of having too much P and N ... which could create a whole new set of problems.

Right now, That's probably why you see your P and N numbers going back to 0 a few hours after dosing. They're being absorbed into the rock and sand ... along with a bit being taken in by the algae and corals.

i've only heard of rocks absorbing silicates and phosphates. i never heard of them absorbing nitrates. is this really a thing?

 

[malacoda]

i've only heard of rocks absorbing silicates and phosphates. i never heard of them absorbing nitrates. is this really a thing?

Nope, not a thing. I was just generalizing a bit. PO4 is the primary focus here since the OPs main worry is a recurrence of dinos.

The P is mostly likely being absorbed ... assuming ithe tank is under 1 or 2 years old.

The N is most likely being handled by the bacterial bio-filter.

Regardless, the tank appears to be doing just fine now.

So, if it were me, I'd hold off on dosing either P or N ... and save it for when/IF dinos reappear.

Preventively dosing higher and higher amounts of them until you see the numbers start to rise may seem fine at first ... right up until you've suddenly surpassed the ability of the rock to buffer P or the bio-filter to buffer the N. Especially if you've been increasing the doses quickly or aggressively because the numbers don't seem to moving at first.

It could easily slingshot you from numbers that 'appear' too low ... to numbers that are very high.

If the tank is happy, just let it be happy.

 

[malacoda]

Better to prevent a problem than fix one...

Yeah, but only if you're 100% certain your preventing one and not opening the door to another...

 

[Michel]

I like the look of the macro algae included in the setup. Nice tank!

I had a dino problem and I believe it was because my nitrates and phosphates were zero, which also explained some of the lack of growth I was having in the corals. (I was underfeeding the tank to combat a nuisance algae, which I learned was not working). I increased feeding and manually removed the dinos with a turkey baster. I started dosing Red Sea Reef Energy AB+ as well. My sps are growing now and the dinos are mostly gone. I have noticed some diatoms in one part of the tank. I have also put a small UV in the sump to be totally clear. My nitrates finally just read .2 ppm but my phosphates are still reading zero. I don't know if thats OK or not. My euphyllia are actually having a problem with receding tissue but the sps are happy so :shrug:

Thank you! I also like the look of the tank a lot. it's a real eye catcher on my desk.

The trouble with dosing P and N,. especially on a younger tanks, is that the rock and sand can act like sinks ... absorbing all the extra P and N you're adding ... right up until ... all of a sudden ... they can't absorb any more. Then they can start to leach them back out.

Then you go from being the position of having too little P and N to opposite problem of having too much P and N ... which could create a whole new set of problems.

Right now, That's probably why you see your P and N numbers going back to 0 a few hours after dosing. They're being absorbed into the rock and sand ... along with a bit being taken in by the algae and corals.

This tank is already up and running for about 5-6 years with the same rock and sand so its not really a young tank.

I have also tried daily dosing nitrates/phosphates by hand for weeks till the point the point where I was able to still measure it a few days later but eventualy it still went back to 0 and I dont want to dose it with a dosing pump because im affraid it getting to high at some point.