NO3 - PO4 ratio

[Nick Barbier]

NO3 - PO4 is definitely out of balance in my 125g mixed reef. The NO3 is 75ppm and the PO4 is 0.1. I did a 72 gallon water change in hopes of restoring balance and I'm dosing the recommended amount Red Sea's NOPOX. What is the recommended ratio between the two? I've read everything from 16:1 to 100:1. I don't chase numbers, I just want my tank back in balance. Thanks for the help.

 

[Sophie"s mom]

NO3 - PO4 is definitely out of balance in my 125g mixed reef. The NO3 is 75ppm and the PO4 is 0.1. I did a 72 gallon water change in hopes of restoring balance and I'm dosing the recommended amount Red Sea's NOPOX. What is the recommended ratio between the two? I've read everything from 16:1 to 100:1. I don't chase numbers, I just want my tank back in balance. Thanks for the help.

I have always heard 10:1. But at the end of the day, let your tank inhabitants tell you how the tank is doing. My ratio is RARELY 10:1. but everyone seems very happy. My Nitrates are usually between 10 and 20 ppm, and my Phosphate is usually about .12. But it does fluctuate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ratios are never (IMO) the best way to set nutrient targets. Folks that claim it is have zero data support for their assertions, and obviously it can go way, way wrong if both are very low or both are very high.

Both N and P should be targeted to a desirable range, independent of the other.

I recommend 2-10 ppm for nitrate and 0.03 to 0.1 ppm for phosphate.

Much higher can be OK, and lower can be Ok in a well established tank with other sources of N and P. Lower can lead to a bad outcome in newer tanks or those with less feeding.

 

[Nick Barbier]

I have always heard 10:1. But at the end of the day, let your tank inhabitants tell you how the tank is doing. My ratio is RARELY 10:1. but everyone seems very happy. My Nitrates are usually between 10 and 20 ppm, and my Phosphate is usually about .12. But it does fluctuate.

I wish my tank was 20ppm NO3. I dose 2 part. The Alk is 8.9 DKH, Ca is 500 (way too high imo), Mg at 1350. My sps corals are starting to lose color and turning white around the edges, maybe because of the high PO4? The lps and softies seem to be doing alright. I would think that after doing a 72 gallon water change and continuing to dose 2 part & NOPOX, everything would be stable.

 

[Sophie"s mom]

I wish my tank was 20ppm NO3. I dose 2 part. The Alk is 8.9 DKH, Ca is 500 (way too high imo), Mg at 1350. My sps corals are starting to lose color and turning white around the edges, maybe because of the high PO4? The lps and softies seem to be doing alright. I would think that after doing a 72 gallon water change and continuing to dose 2 part & NOPOX, everything would be stable.

I honestly know very little about SPS. I have mostly softies and a couple LPS, all of which are far more forgiving of "dirty" water. In fact they tend to prefer dirty water to a degree.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I wish my tank was 20ppm NO3. I dose 2 part. The Alk is 8.9 DKH, Ca is 500 (way too high imo), Mg at 1350. My sps corals are starting to lose color and turning white around the edges, maybe because of the high PO4? The lps and softies seem to be doing alright. I would think that after doing a 72 gallon water change and continuing to dose 2 part & NOPOX, everything would be stable.

Richard Ross' tank has/had nitrate and phosphate higher than yours, and it looks great..

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

 

[Nick Barbier]

Ratios are never (IMO) the best way to set nutrient targets. Folks that claim it is have zero data support for their assertions, and obviously it can go way, way wrong if both are very low or both are very high.

Both N and P should be targeted to a desirable range, independent of the other.

I recommend 2-10 ppm for nitrate and 0.03 to 0.1 ppm for phosphate.

Much higher can be OK, and lower can be Ok in a well established tank with other sources of N and P. Lower can lead to a bad outcome in newer tanks or those with less feeding.

I did a 72g water change on my 125g and I'm dosing Oceans Blend 2 part solution and Red Sea's NOPOX. Because my NO3 and PO4 are so high is that affecting my nutrient levels? NO3: 75, PO4: 0.1-0.25, Alk: 8.9 DKH, Ca: 500 (way too high IMO), Mg: 1350. How can I get my tank back in balance?? The SPS are starting to lose color and turning white around the edges, LPS and softies seem to be okay for now.
Thanks once again Randy, for all your vast experience. Anything that you can do to help me is greatly appreciated!!

 

[Nick Barbier]

Richard Ross' tank has/had nitrate and phosphate higher than yours, and it looks great..

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

I watched his video on phosphates, it was very informative.

 

[Nick Barbier]

I watched his video on phosphates, it was very informative.

I did a 72g water change on my 125g and I'm dosing Oceans Blend 2 part solution and Red Sea's NOPOX. Because my NO3 and PO4 are so high is that affecting my nutrient levels? NO3: 75, PO4: 0.1-0.25, Alk: 8.9 DKH, Ca: 500 (way too high IMO), Mg: 1350. How can I get my tank back in balance?? The SPS are starting to lose color and turning white around the edges, LPS and softies seem to be okay for now.
Thanks once again Randy, for all your vast experience. Anything that you can do to help me is greatly appreciated!!

I can't seem to get my tank back in balance and seem to figure out was causing this. I only feed my seven fish what they can consume in a few seconds. I have no snails, hermit crabs or other inverts in my tank because I have a coris wrasse that will eat them.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, 500 ppm calcium is fine.

FWIW, when folks say nutrients in the hobby, they generally mean source of N and P, not anything else.

The NOPOX is a fine plan, but you may need more than you are dosing.

 

[Nick Barbier]

I honestly know very little about SPS. I have mostly softies and a couple LPS, all of which are far more forgiving of "dirty" water. In fact they tend to prefer dirty water to a degree.

Bird's net sps are far more forgiving the Montipora or Acropora. Acros are the hardest to take care of. I don't currently have any in my tank. You have to have pristine water quality, high intensity lights and high water flow in a tank to successfully take care of most SPS.

 

[Nick Barbier]

FWIW, 500 ppm calcium is fine.

FWIW, when folks say nutrients in the hobby, they generally mean source of N and P, not anything else.

The NOPOX is a fine plan, but you may need more than you are dosing.

I'm dosing the recommended dosage of NOPOX, for NO3 >10 ppm, 3 ml for every 25 gallons or 15ml for a 125g tank daily. What do you recommend for the NOPOX dosage and is there anything else that I can be doing?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm dosing the recommended dosage of NOPOX, for NO3 >10 ppm, 3 ml for every 25 gallons or 15ml for a 125g tank daily. What do you recommend for the NOPOX dosage and is there anything else that I can be doing?

If N and P are still higher than you want, and you do not think there is a trace element limitation on growth of bacteria (which would be somewhat unusual), there's no reason to not up the dose.

This thread may be interesting:

Looking for thoughts on organic carbon dosing and nitrate

It is frequently claimed that it takes a long time (sometimes weeks) for organic carbon dosing to reduce nitrate. Do folks believe that is true, and if it is, why would it be true? Are most folks just starting to dose too slowly? Bacterial number increase is sometimes cited as a reason, but...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Nick Barbier]

If N and P are still higher than you want, and you do not think there is a trace element limitation on growth of bacteria (which would be somewhat unusual), there's no reason to not up the dose.

This thread may be interesting:

Looking for thoughts on organic carbon dosing and nitrate

It is frequently claimed that it takes a long time (sometimes weeks) for organic carbon dosing to reduce nitrate. Do folks believe that is true, and if it is, why would it be true? Are most folks just starting to dose too slowly? Bacterial number increase is sometimes cited as a reason, but...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks Randy, I will read the thread.

 

[Nick Barbier]

If N and P are still higher than you want, and you do not think there is a trace element limitation on growth of bacteria (which would be somewhat unusual), there's no reason to not up the dose.

This thread may be interesting:

Looking for thoughts on organic carbon dosing and nitrate

It is frequently claimed that it takes a long time (sometimes weeks) for organic carbon dosing to reduce nitrate. Do folks believe that is true, and if it is, why would it be true? Are most folks just starting to dose too slowly? Bacterial number increase is sometimes cited as a reason, but...

www.reef2reef.com

I forgot to mention that I recently added 30 Max Spec Bio Speres in the sump.