Nopox, Without a skimmer.

[Stan-Lee]

Hello all, recently having a discussion with a few people regarding Nopox and its value, it's been brought to my attention that you can't dose nopox without a skimmer.

yet the interesting thing is, i've had my P04 No3 drop to acceptable levels without a skimmer and only frequent once every two day small water changes.

My question is am i shooting myself in the foot further down the line ?

Because from what i can see i'm having successful results.

 

[Raising Reef.]

Your results are interesting but I fear not sustainable there is nothing removing the nutrients once the bacteria have bound it up so eventually it will get back into the water column and become food for something els. That what I think anyway.

 

[NemHost]

You can’t carbon dose without a skimmer in the long run. Carbon dosing increase bacterial load which reduces oxygen levels in water and also bacteria dies and needs to be removed. So a skimmer helps on both fronts. Without one you will eventually run into trouble.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

With Nopox you are carbon dosing, which is a food source for bacteria. By increasing the food source for the bacteria you are increasing the bacterial colonies. The bacteria is consuming nitrates and to a smaller degree phosphates. The skimmer helps remove the bacteria from the water column, which is how the nutrient export works. If you don't have a skimmer you can maintain the same thing with doing large water changes, but if you are doing large water changes then you probably would not need to dose Nopox. The easiest and safest way to carbon dose is with a skimmer. If you stop carbon dosing without having a means of nutrient export, then all of that nitrates will be back in a free form in the water column.

 

[ZoWhat]

Randy Holmes Farley then turned me onto to a Nopox formula: dosing a shotglass of 80proof vodka + a shotglass of vinegar in the AM and then late in the PM.

Aftrr trying it 4 weeks later all my LR have lost all the nuisance algae junk and corals are really taking off. I even had a coral the was 99% dead snd it's now 50% alive and making a comeback.

Never knew this 50/50 vodka vinegar dosing supercharges the explosion of good bacteria devouring no3 snd po4 like a beast.

 

[Stan-Lee]

With Nopox you are carbon dosing, which is a food source for bacteria. By increasing the food source for the bacteria you are increasing the bacterial colonies. The bacteria is consuming nitrates and to a smaller degree phosphates. The skimmer helps remove the bacteria from the water column, which is how the nutrient export works. If you don't have a skimmer you can maintain the same thing with doing large water changes, but if you are doing large water changes then you probably would not need to dose Nopox. The easiest and safest way to carbon dose is with a skimmer. If you stop carbon dosing without having a means of nutrient export, then all of that nitrates will be back in a free form in the water column.

So my only nutrient export is my small water changes could that be enough to keep this in check because two weeks in I'd assume it would have crashed by now if something was going horribly wrong.

 

[NemHost]

So my only nutrient export is my small water changes could that be enough to keep this in check because two weeks in I'd assume it would have crashed by now if something was going horribly wrong.

Not necessarily true. It depends on how much you are dosing and how well your system could handle the increased bacterial load. It may work for you but, as a general rule, it isn’t a good idea to carbon dose without skimming even if you do frequent water changes.

 

[Ari_Ball]

Yeah, nopox works better with skimmer.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

Not necessarily true. It depends on how much you are dosing and how well your system could handle the increased bacterial load. It may work for you but, as a general rule, it isn’t a good idea to carbon dose without skimming even if you do frequent water changes.

If you do large enough water changes frequently enough then it will be the same as running a skimmer. But if are doing large WC then there would probably not be a need to dose Nopox.

 

[mcarroll]

Hello all, recently having a discussion with a few people regarding Nopox and its value

It's a tool, like a screwdriver or hammer – there's no inherent value to carbon dosing.

Because from what i can see i'm having successful results.

Many ways to have successful results without carbon dosing.....or unsuccessful results with it.

Like the carpenter. It's not just that they have a hammer it's that they know how and when to use it.

So do you know what your system is like without carbon dosing? That's the main reference point you need.

With that, you can ask whether it's worth addressing at all? And if so, whether carbon dosing is the only or even the best way to address it? Etc.

I think for your case you have to ask what the nutrients are for, what the skimmer is really doing and what you real goal is for all this. If the goal is to make the test kits have a certain number on them, then you win. If the goal is a stable, healthy tank, then carbon dosing can be used, but should not usually be the first tool out of the belt – it's not right for all tanks or all occasions. (Too far on the tool metaphor? )

 

[Stan-Lee]

So do you know what your system is like without carbon dosing? That's the main reference point you need.

Absolutely it's one of the reasons I started and so far my tank has never looked as clean and fresh as it does now so I guess by that metric I'm on course. Keep going with the metaphors they're excellent as an engineer I appreciate it

 

[Stan-Lee]

If you do large enough water changes frequently enough then it will be the same as running a skimmer. But if are doing large WC then there would probably not be a need to dose Nopox.

That's a very good point I'll give it a few more months and if everything continues well I'll more than likely keep the routine, dosing . 5ml every two days from a 500ml bottle is going to last me a few years haha

 

[enbee]

Only bumping this thread as it rates high on a NoPox google search and want to add to the points above for anyone stumbling on it like I have. Like NemHost mentioned the main issue of NoPox (or similar) without a skimmer, is it can quickly kill your livestock due to a bacterial explosion stripping the water of oxygen. The skimmer not only pulls the bacteria produced, but also aerates the water column if the bacterial film suffocates the surface. When using it, start slow and build up to the recommended levels so you can react to the results.

 

[nano reef]

I stumbled across this to. My nitrates are around 10 i think but have never had one bit of algae so does this mean my system is good? I keep reading I should have 0 or much lower. i use api so its always hard to tell anyway,. I do get film algae on walls though. I have a 10 gallon no skimmer but change about 35 to 40 percent once every 7 to 9 days. Is that considered a large change? My system finished cycling after 5 weeks and began dec 27th so not that old. Just last week I have noticed some wierd things in my tank and read it could be a sign of maturity. Some tubular looking growths on rock. Like a pod of some sorts, small but lots of it! I bought live rock from someone about 6 weeks ago because she advertised it and she was close by and it was expensive cool looking rock. Caribe sea cave and arch with the fake coraline. Her system was a few months older than mine. I have some tiny worm like things on glass when I turn lights on, almost microscopic and I saw some kind of bug run away or swim lol when I turned lights on too! Freaky. I can post pics when hubby gets home of the pod things, there is a huge grouping in the cave. Should I remove them?

 

[Nepenthes88]

I don't have an answer for you regarding success or failure of carbon dosing with no skimmer.

However, I'm trying the same exact thing but with the addition of some Zeovit products. Check it out if you want to commiserate.

Right now my nitrates read 0 and phosphate 0.037. I do a weekly 25% water change. So far haven't observed issues with O2 levels and corals seem happy.

 

[csb123]

I wonder if the corals are consuming the bacteria generated by the carbon dosing.

 

[Nepenthes88]

I wonder if the corals are consuming the bacteria generated by the carbon dosing.

Ya I think that's the idea. ReefDudes just had Lou Ekus on from Tropic Marin to go into depth on carbon dosing. Link here.

The way Lou describes it, MOST of the bacteria are consumed directly by coral with only a small fraction being removed by the skimmer. Don't know how accurate this is but makes sense to me and is the reason why I'm not too worried about carbon dosing without a skimmer even though this goes against 99% of carbon dosing recommendations. Hoping to not be proven wrong!

 

[User1]

So here is the deal in a nutshell - when in doubt go to the source. Source being the manufacture of NoPox, Red Sea. If you do enough searching you will see that dosing NoPox in ignorance (not saying you fall into this bucket) equals a disaster. Having personally used it I would recommend using a skimmer. If you do not have a great working skimmer (and not all skimmers are created equal) then I would not recommend using NoPox.

Your mileage may vary.

From their site:
* Efficient protein skimming is critical to the safe use of NO3O4-X.

URL:

NO3: PO4-X

Red Sea NO3: PO4-X is a unique complex of carbons that are used by nutrient reducing bacteria. Each carbon in the complex is utilized by different strains of microorganisms while ensuring the specific Carbon:Nitrogen:Phosphorus ratio required for each stage.

www.redseafish.com

 

[HB AL]

* Efficient protein skimming is critical to the safe use of NO3O4-X.
They say skimming is critical to safe use of there product. They are not gonna deter people from buying and using there product that don’t have a skimmer if it wasn’t really important to skim when carbon dosing.

 

[squirrelbaffler]

I’ve been dosing 4 ml 4 times a day into my 90 mixed reef of 50/50 vodka/vinegar. No skimmer. Very low water flow so detritus sits in my sump for removal with bi monthly 20 gallon water changes. System is bare bottom. No need for a skimmer.