Not sure what’s going on

[JeffS]

Not sure what’s going on..so much information and so much contradictory information. I started a new tank. I have live sand, live rock and 2 paired clown fish. No ammonia, no nitrate, no nitrite, ph doesn’t seem to move when enhancer is added, salinity finally moved down from1.026 to 1.024. No other readings seem to move. Tank doesn’t seem to cycle. Clowns are happy and active for the first 12 hours. Any thoughts or recommend actions? CN there be something in the water that is frustrating all tests?

 

[Rtaylor]

My understanding of the live rock is they are also an ammonia source. At the fish store they said they feed the rocks ammonia and they should cycle the tank immediately

If the rocks were cured and ammonia was added, then they are a source of denitrifying bacteria, meaning it converts ammonia to nitrite and then nitrate. This is exactly the purpose of cycling a tank. To propagate denitrifying bacteria sufficient to handle the bio-load of your tank.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

The rock is real reef rock. This is my first tank. I don’t know exactly what’s what. And the information out there is so contradictory that it would have you believe you can create an ocean in 20 minutes or shouldn’t even try for 20 years

Unless the fish store painted "real reef rock" purple, you do not have true live rock... The store may have had it in water, but that does not mean it's actually "live" .

Edit: ok, so there's a product called "real reef rock" that appears to basically be cement painted purple... Kind of like Caribsea's "life rock". I wouldn't put that stuff in my tank for a million dollars

 

[JeffS]

The rock is real reef rock. This is my first tank. I don’t know exactly what’s what. And the information out there is so contradictory that it would have you believe you can create an ocean in 20 minutes or shouldn’t even try for 20 years

I watched 20 hours of brs tv. Seemed pretty easy to understand. The one thing I really picked up on was when they said you can hear anything but listen to one person. So I did. It’s hasn’t gone exactly how they said it would but I expected more problems because it seems like everyone has them. Things look good but nothing is fluctuating and that concerns me because like most science I would expect it to.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

But this biggest thing is to get the fish out until you know the tank is cycled.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I watched 20 hours of brs tv. Seemed pretty easy to understand. The one thing I really picked up on was when they said you can hear anything but listen to one person. So I did. It’s hasn’t gone exactly how they said it would but I expected more problems because it seems like everyone has them. Things look good but nothing is fluctuating and that concerns me because like most science I would expect it to.

BECAUSE ITS ONLY BEEN 4 DAYS! LOL

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Seriously, read through some of this (scroll past the equipment part)... it will help you understand the processes a new tank goes through.

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium Introduction The marine environment is one of the most complex systems on the planet. The aquarium you are about to set up is only a tiny sliver of the vast ocean, but it is nowhere near simple. This task is going to take patience, a...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[danimal1211]

Jeff what cycle enhancer did you use? Ph should be in a range of 7.8 to 8.3. While there is some debate on the higher end of the spectrum 8.2 is fine and young tanks will fluctuate

 

[JeffS]

BECAUSE ITS ONLY BEEN 4 DAYS! LOL

Real reef is a huge company that sells this rock. The fish store I’m dealing with has been around for 40 years and does all the commercial tanks in the Milwaukee area. They’re not a little mom and pop shop. I’m doing what they said. And I’ll have them test the water. Really was just looking for information from somebody who has experience and might have something useful to add. I’ve educated myself a lot and have gotten so many different answers. Like I said. Some say you can populate an ocean in 20 minutes and other say never in 20 years. My guess is there’s something in the water that I have not tested for that’s frustrating the other tests. This is very common in all sciences. If something present is overwhelming it can frustrate all test. I just thought maybe someone had experience with this scenario

 

[JeffS]

Jeff what cycle enhancer did you use? Ph should be in a range of 7.8 to 8.3. While there is some debate on the higher end of the spectrum 8.2 is fine and young tanks will fluctuate

 

[danimal1211]

Here’s a good place to study on that bottle https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacteria-in-bottle-busting-myth-seneye-style.456820/

 

[danimal1211]

Actually I just realized it was seachem seed and not stability in that study.

 

[00W]

All who have answered have the experience you seek, myself included.
I'm not quite sure what answer you are looking for,but man,I'd love to give you one if I could.
Real reef rock is completely man-made. They cure it and it arrives to you wet.
But,it's not live rock.
Debatable whether stability works or not.
I've never used bacteria of any kind so can't help you there but many on here have and stability is definitely not the choice.
I've never watched BRS TV nor do I watch YouTube videos or anything of the sort. Just too many people, too much wrong information.
Checking my clock,I've been doing this almost 40 years and the one thing I know is you gotta move slowly in this hobby.
The only people I trust are those on here.
My opinion.
Tank is brand new. You are going to use those clowns to cycle that tank and I think they should go back to this awesome LFS and you should cycle the tank with an ammonia source, wait it out, be patient test, be patient, test again then go get your fish.
That rock will take a long time to provide a biofilter doing it the way you are.
Maybe that's your answer, maybe not but your tests aren't going to show anything yet.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Real reef is a huge company that sells this rock. The fish store I’m dealing with has been around for 40 years and does all the commercial tanks in the Milwaukee area. They’re not a little mom and pop shop. I’m doing what they said. And I’ll have them test the water. Really was just looking for information from somebody who has experience and might have something useful to add. I’ve educated myself a lot and have gotten so many different answers. Like I said. Some say you can populate an ocean in 20 minutes and other say never in 20 years. My guess is there’s something in the water that I have not tested for that’s frustrating the other tests. This is very common in all sciences. If something present is overwhelming it can frustrate all test. I just thought maybe someone had experience with this scenario

Hi Jeff, I studied and watched brs videos over and over again. Spent months before I ever put a drop of water in a saltwater tank. I have a life time of fresh water experience. I will tell you that after all of that study I only had a tiny bit of knowledge when it came to a reef tank. You have to go slow. Learn each step as you go. You can start over and get this right. As others have suggested take the fish back to the LFS. Read the article suggested earlier in this post. It will help you cycle the tank properly. Don't cycle the tank with fish. It is horrible to the fish. Once you get cycle down then get your fish. Learn to keep the tank stable. Then move to the next step. Anyone like BRS or stores are trying to sell products. Millions are made from new fish keepers who then get frustrated and quit. Then someone comes around and buys the "used equipment" for pennies on the dollar. We want you to be successful. The hobby is a real joy and life changing. You will get there. Just take your time

 

[JeffS]

Hi Jeff, I studied and watched brs videos over and over again. Spent months before I ever put a drop of water in a saltwater tank. I have a life time of fresh water experience. I will tell you that after all of that study I only had a tiny bit of knowledge when it came to a reef tank. You have to go slow. Learn each step as you go. You can start over and get this right. As others have suggested take the fish back to the LFS. Read the article suggested earlier in this post. It will help you cycle the tank properly. Don't cycle the tank with fish. It is horrible to the fish. Once you get cycle down then get your fish. Learn to keep the tank stable. Then move to the next step. Anyone like BRS or stores are trying to sell products. Millions are made from new fish keepers who then get frustrated and quit. Then someone comes around and buys the "used equipment" for pennies on the dollar. We want you to be successful. The hobby is a real joy and life changing. You will get there. Just take your time

I am taking time and I’m doing what a successful business and lifetime reef tank enthusiasts, have recommended. I’m getting the feeling, like most forums like this, that not many really know what they’re talking about or how they’ve accomplished what they have. A reef tank is science. It’s not magic. And if you know the scientific process it’s actually as simple as any science or math. 2+2 is 4 and 2 part hydrogen and 1 part oxygen make water. And those things are complicated if you don’t understand them. People who understand the science of a reef tank can successfully set it up over and over in a short period of time. Many do it regularly, including the lps I’m referring to. Quite honestly, I’ll bring them a water sample tomorrow and they’ll tell me more about it than anybody on this site could accurately tell me. A reef tank is simple science. Unfortunately 90%+ of people that have them..don’t understand it. They just did something that someone else told them and it worked. I thought maybe this was different but I’ll just rely on the people that set these up every day with success. Happy reefing to all

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I am taking time and I’m doing what a successful business and lifetime reef tank enthusiasts, have recommended. I’m getting the feeling, like most forums like this, that not many really know what they’re talking about or how they’ve accomplished what they have. A reef tank is science. It’s not magic. And if you know the scientific process it’s actually as simple as any science or math. 2+2 is 4 and 2 part hydrogen and 1 part oxygen make water. And those things are complicated if you don’t understand them. People who understand the science of a reef tank can successfully set it up over and over in a short period of time. Many do it regularly, including the lps I’m referring to. Quite honestly, I’ll bring them a water sample tomorrow and they’ll tell me more about it than anybody on this site could accurately tell me. A reef tank is simple science. Unfortunately 90%+ of people that have them..don’t understand it. They just did something that someone else told them and it worked. I thought maybe this was different but I’ll just rely on the people that set these up every day with success. Happy reefing to all

Then why did you post here asking for help?? Just to turn around and insult those of us who took the time to respond??

You should know that some of us ARE actual scientists and do know what we're talking about. (As do many who are "only" hobbyists...)

 

[Red_Beard]

If the LFS cycled those rocks with ammonia, you are good to go with the clowns. Right now all the people out there talking about your "numbers" are looking a few months down the road when you decide you want coral. 2 Clownfish are a very small bio-load for that much rock. even if it WASN'T cycled, if you pay attention to your ammonia levels and change water appropriately they will be fine. You are going to need at least a few more days or so before you start noticing nitrates come up. Your NH3, NO2/NO3 levels are right on with what i would expect to see from store cycled rock though. You won't see any ammonia or nitrite, the rock(bacteria in the rock) will convert all of that to nitrate quicker than it can accumulate in any measurable fashion.

For what i would do going forward:
Keep the clowns
Measure ammonia daily - if it climbs above .5 do a 50% water change
measure nitrate either daily or every other day - if you see it going up with no ammonia build up your tank is "cycled" and you can start adding more fish SLOWLY, let the tank grow to match the load.
Don't even measure anything else other than salinity this month, none of that is going to change enough to matter.
i would NOT do a water change until nitrates hit 10ish ppm, then do a 10-20%, nitrates below that are your friend and you want that, but NEVER 0. In about a month, maybe 2, when you start to see algea, watch your phosphate levels too. may seem counter intuitive, but make sure you keep them up, like between .05-.1 ish. In a new tank they will want to stay at 0, that is when you hit some nasty stuff vs green algea that is ugly but useful and easy to deal with. At about 2 months in, you will probably start seeing the "uglies" they will run their course. Dont do anything drastic, stay the course and get more clean up crew. After 4ish months if it has calmed down and you have the hang of keeping things stabile, start watching your alk/cal/mag/ph levels. if those are good and stabile it is time for coral.
You can speed this up, but if you don't know what to watch for it can go south VERY quickly and you will end up killing a lot of coral and maybe some fish. That is why most people recommend to take it slow. It is so easy to see all this beautiful life and want to jump in, but this is a game of patience. Stuff happens on the scale of weeks/months, not hours/days. (unless it is bad stuff. that can happen in minutes)

Good Luck!

 

[Cichlid Dad]

I am taking time and I’m doing what a successful business and lifetime reef tank enthusiasts, have recommended. I’m getting the feeling, like most forums like this, that not many really know what they’re talking about or how they’ve accomplished what they have. A reef tank is science. It’s not magic. And if you know the scientific process it’s actually as simple as any science or math. 2+2 is 4 and 2 part hydrogen and 1 part oxygen make water. And those things are complicated if you don’t understand them. People who understand the science of a reef tank can successfully set it up over and over in a short period of time. Many do it regularly, including the lps I’m referring to. Quite honestly, I’ll bring them a water sample tomorrow and they’ll tell me more about it than anybody on this site could accurately tell me. A reef tank is simple science. Unfortunately 90%+ of people that have them..don’t understand it. They just did something that someone else told them and it worked. I thought maybe this was different but I’ll just rely on the people that set these up every day with success. Happy reefing to all

If we're that simple, everyone would have successful beautiful thriving tanks. Not here asking for help then getting upset at the help. Best of luck.

 

[JeffS]

If we're that simple, everyone would have successful beautiful thriving tanks. Not here asking for help then getting upset at the help. Best of luck.

I’m not upset. I was looking for actual information. Open heart surgery probably seems incredibly difficult to the average person but the doctor who’s done it 100 times can do it with his eyes closed. Most want to criticize and deter people from doing things correctly. Others want them to struggle like they have. The first really good piece of information came from Red_Beard. The rest of you seem to want to belittle and pat yourselves on the back thinking you’re splitting atoms and sending rockets into space. A saltwater tank is simple biology. And if you follow directions from somebody who knows what they’re doing..you’ll probably be successful. I was looking for another person of that nature. I imagine most people on here have setup a few tanks. I’m taking advice from people who have setup thousands of successful tanks and maintain many of those. They just happen to be an hour away from me. But I image they’ll know a lot more when I give them a water sample. No hard feelings. Happy reefing!

 

[JeffS]

If the LFS cycled those rocks with ammonia, you are good to go with the clowns. Right now all the people out there talking about your "numbers" are looking a few months down the road when you decide you want coral. 2 Clownfish are a very small bio-load for that much rock. even if it WASN'T cycled, if you pay attention to your ammonia levels and change water appropriately they will be fine. You are going to need at least a few more days or so before you start noticing nitrates come up. Your NH3, NO2/NO3 levels are right on with what i would expect to see from store cycled rock though. You won't see any ammonia or nitrite, the rock(bacteria in the rock) will convert all of that to nitrate quicker than it can accumulate in any measurable fashion.

For what i would do going forward:
Keep the clowns
Measure ammonia daily - if it climbs above .5 do a 50% water change
measure nitrate either daily or every other day - if you see it going up with no ammonia build up your tank is "cycled" and you can start adding more fish SLOWLY, let the tank grow to match the load.
Don't even measure anything else other than salinity this month, none of that is going to change enough to matter.
i would NOT do a water change until nitrates hit 10ish ppm, then do a 10-20%, nitrates below that are your friend and you want that, but NEVER 0. In about a month, maybe 2, when you start to see algea, watch your phosphate levels too. may seem counter intuitive, but make sure you keep them up, like between .05-.1 ish. In a new tank they will want to stay at 0, that is when you hit some nasty stuff vs green algea that is ugly but useful and easy to deal with. At about 2 months in, you will probably start seeing the "uglies" they will run their course. Dont do anything drastic, stay the course and get more clean up crew. After 4ish months if it has calmed down and you have the hang of keeping things stabile, start watching your alk/cal/mag/ph levels. if those are good and stabile it is time for coral.
You can speed this up, but if you don't know what to watch for it can go south VERY quickly and you will end up killing a lot of coral and maybe some fish. That is why most people recommend to take it slow. It is so easy to see all this beautiful life and want to jump in, but this is a game of patience. Stuff happens on the scale of weeks/months, not hours/days. (unless it is bad stuff. that can happen in minutes)

Good Luck!

Thanks Red_Beard!

 

[00W]

Oh....
Red beard is right.
As are the rest of us.
Because what you didn't get from his post is just like everything, science is part luck too.
We've all had ups and downs in this hobby, 90% of them having nothing to do with science.
Remember along the way to have fun and respect what you are doing.
Sorry I'm just a regular dummy, not a scientist thought you were on here for advice. We all did the best we could with that my bad
Best of luck.