Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.

[mcarroll]

I am probably nuts, but I had nothing but coral for around 5 years before adding any fish.

Since adding fish, I've only had three little Barnacle Blennies in my 100 Gal system and it's been great. They have amazing little personalities – never a boring moment when I'm at the tank with time to watch. Someday I may add more fish, but it's not going to be soon and I'm closing in on ten years with this system.

I'm not saying that's for everyone, but it's an example.

 

[leahfiish]

I don't think it's controversial. It would be hard for anybody to legitimately argue that it's better to fully stock a tank quickly than to be patient. Part of the reason people advise to go slow is that so you don't change too many variables at once. For example, say you add a foxface, butterfly, a bunch of zoanthids, and change your lighting all at the same time. The zooanthids don't open. Is it the butterfly eating them? The foxface? Do they not like your lighting? Did they have a pest? Or is it something else with your tank? Since so many things were changed it's difficult to see the cause and effect.

 

[mcarroll]

I don't think it's controversial. It would be hard for anybody to legitimately argue that it's better to fully stock a tank quickly than to be patient. Part of the reason people advise to go slow is that so you don't change too many variables at once. For example, say you add a foxface, butterfly, a bunch of zoanthids, and change your lighting all at the same time. The zooanthids don't open. Is it the butterfly eating them? The foxface? Do they not like your lighting? Did they have a pest? Or is it something else with your tank? Since so many things were changed it's difficult to see the cause and effect.

Perfect examples!

 

[Bdog4u2]

I'd focus on how gravy it will be for those first few fish!!! Milk that phase out as long as you can just for their sake, IMO.

It doesn't have to be thought of so much as being hard on you as it is great for them!

I honestly think that phase can be pretty great for the fishkeeper too though....there's no other time where you'll be able to focus so much on a single (or so few) fish.

I set my tanks up fast and skip the cycle phase with old cured fiji live rock but i stock my tanks slow and i have lost very few new fish. tanks take a little while to balance out and every time you add a fish it needs to re Balance itself. I have a lot of patience and don't like issues. I believe fish should be added slowly but coral frags dont put out must waste so can stocked pretty fast if the tank is stable enough. Impatient reefers are out of the hobby as fast as they filled their tank.

 

[Daniel Strickland]

A truly fun and educational thread to read.. great topic....

While it is not a exact correlation, in recent years I helped keep a pool in condition.. Several challenges were presented trying to open this pool (which had been opened then abandoned by the previous home owners). One of the hard lessons we learned was cause and effect in a large body of water.. i.e. Add a chemical and hurry up and wait.... meanwhile a whole passel of kiddos were just itching, and nagging, to get to go swimming... The pressure is real, while the wait is important..

Growing up on a farm and cattle ranch you also tend to learn to be passionate about the animals and crops under your care.. while at the same time you have to come to the understanding that sometimes despite your best intentions and care, animals die.. crops don't flourish...

I hope I didn't come off in my previous post as endorsing a fully stocked tank in a matter of weeks, or even months.. This type of husbandry is not healthy for any type of ecosystem.. I do think however there is more of a middle ground that is still beneficial to both the tank and the living-room. I don't see this as even being disputable due to the sheer number of successful tanks started this way..

There will always be New and older reefers that have fully stocked tanks in weeks, as well as the 1 fish 1 snail 1 year reefers.. People are gonna do pretty much what they want to do, since it's their money and their home, this is ok to because there is success and enjoyment to be had from both methods..

I, like most of you spent perhaps hundreds of hours doing research into this hobby before I ever spent a dime.. Some it on other forums. The 1 fish 1 snail 1 year method is present to some extent in all. I almost didn't pursue this hobby because I wasn't going to wait a year to introduce fish and corals. But with enough reading it became apparent, to me anyways that this is not the most popular method. Nor is it always the most successful.. but it does seem to have the most vocal supporters, and sad to say internet bullys..

The number one reason I settled in this forum reef2reef, that seems to kept more in check here..

Of course this is JMHO and I could be wrong.. it's already happened today.. ​

 

[N4sty T4te]

I think the idea of going slow is really for the beginner. If your learning to ride a bike for the first time you don't do it on a mountain bike barreling down a hill at 20 mph.

However for the more experienced, you can go quicker once everything is dialed in, and take much larger steps than recommended for the beginner. Similar to if your going to try and grow a lawn, you wouldn't plant 1% of it at a time.

Obviously you can't just add 20 fish and 50 corals all at the same time regardless your experience level, it's an ecosystem that has to be developed, but you can add stuff quick enough.

And really we should all be promoting going slow 100% of the time, because people buy a tank and then fill it with stuff a week later and then when it all dies they leave the hobby. SO I think the real rule here is know the limitations.

 

[Budman93]

Id like to have some scientific basis for going slow . Once levels are in check what is the difference in starting right away waiting? Words like equilibrium, established tanks, and new tank syndrome are thrown around with little scientific facts to back them up. Don't get me wrong I agree that it's probably ideal to wait at least a few months before adding livestock, at least until levels are stable. But any longer? I'm not sure theres necessarily any point.

 

[mcarroll]

Expertise does not come in a box, or bottle and UPS can't bring it to you. It takes time and mistakes.

It's unwise to make your mistakes on a tank full of fish when you can make them on only one or two fish.

I don't know if that's scientific, but it seems simple to me!

Levels go into flux and re-stabilize after every addition and it can take weeks to notice changes....if you know what to look for.

That's slightly more scientific.

Is it easier for you to maintain your balance on a tightrope when you're walking or when you're running?

That's not scientific at all.

 

[Rick.45cal]

I'll weigh in on this. "Slow" is a relative term. It encompasses many aspects of this hobby, beyond that of the ecosytem itself. In the beginning an inexperienced aquarist really needs to do things very deliberately and with lots of thought. As experienced is gained this changes.

My feelings in regards to the ecosystem are a little different. Mostly in regards to experience. We're building highly structured, ultra complex ecosystems in a glass box in our terrestrial homes. Every one is different, every one has it's unique challenges. As we gain experience through these experiences we become "in tune" with our ecosystems. We can "read" what is lacking, what is needed, via the signs of the inhabitants. Most of the time these are intuitive in nature and extremely sublte. The ecosystem determines the rate that you can stock or what you can stock into it successfully. Only experienced aquarists who are in tune with what is happening in a complex ecosystem can push the limits and be successful. If you aren't that guy, slow down.

I think early aquarist get in trouble because they go through the "what's that? I WANT IT" phase. The "I gotta have it now" mentality of our society is a sure fire way for heartache in this hobby. Who hasn't seen an amazing tank and thought "I WANT THAT!" It's a different understanding from when you first saw that tank to the understanding you have now. Instead of seeing a beautiful stunning tank and that's it, you see the stunning beautiful tank, but you also see the love/effort that has been put forth to create that.

As for the multiple tang thing, I have a problem with jumping on a guy for adding a bunch of tangs at once. After all the constant message is "if you want more than one tang you better add them all at once". That's advice that get's passed freely around. Is that bad advice? no, maybe, and yes! It all depends on the ecosystem/situation. You have to have the experience to be able to determine if not only is it going to be successful but is it going to be successful for the ENTIRE life of ALL of the tangs.

Same for corals. Can you put SPS in a young tank. Yes. Is it a free ride? No! What are the costs... risk of losing livestock, personal anxiety. Plus the added nightmare of micromanaging nutrient levels in a young ecosystem. Maybe we as reefer's should draw parrallels to young tanks being like infants, needing constant attention, love and affection. Throwing 100 frags in a 6 week old system might work! It might not! (I personally feel like crap when I lose something, I would be devastated with a major loss like I have seen many aquarists suffer). Because of my experiences (not only through myself, but through others' experiences). Have I managed to be "successful".

This is like formal gardening, it takes time and forethought. You also have to be willing to learn, and study. If you don't enjoy that on some base level, you WON'T be successful.

There is NO substitute for time and patience in reefkeeping.

 

[Stigigemla]

I think its a pity that so few of the experieced aquarists is good att setting up tanks. They only do it every 5 years or so.

I mostly do like this: Fill the tank with water from the osmosis and add salt. Next day connect it to the system and change water 1 aquarium volume per hour. After one or two hours add live rock from the other sumps. Mount corals and add the fishes intended for the tank. A new tank going and cycled in 2 days.
Can I recommend the method to my customers? No because they have no other sumps with live rock living in water with "normal" nutrition. And they have no system with "aged" water. So its the normal one step at a time that rules. At least half a year without emergencies before adding the more sensitive fishes.

For customers I usually say: Look what kind of tank you want and what kind of animals You want to have in it. Then you book a time with me to sit down and talk about it for one or two hours. After that it is time to go shopping. Of course I have equipment fitting the tank but for beginners the used marked is big. And if the first half year is a success I will have a customer for the next 5 years or more. And they will get accustomed to the prizes for new equipment in time.
For me as a small LFS its imperative that all customers must succeed. Every one thats crashed their tanks will tell their friends. 5 potential customers lost.
The new customers is my best marketing tools. The old customers friends have seen their tanks for a long time so they has already begun or they will not.

 

[cgdcinc]

Great topic. Patience is something that you must have to be successful in reefing. I know I had to learn the hard way in the beginning. It's something that's almost impossible to teach when starting a new tank/first tank.

 

[ruth howard]

I am going very slowly. Our reefer 350 has been set up for a little over a year. We have 4 small fish, a blood shrimp, and 6 small frags. 2 of the fish ( a clownfish, and watchman goby) are about 5 years old and transferred from an old FOWLR tank. We sarted with all dead rock and dry sand in order to avoid pests such as worms, aptasia, etc. We have a very tiny amount of coralline algae starting. Our FOWLR ( started with live rock and sand) was purple with coralline and cycled in no time, however it had many undesirable pests. That was fine for a FOWLR. We didn't want those issues with a reef tank. This is why we used all dead and dry rock. The reef tank has gone through MANY phases from slime, diatoms or dinos, bacteria blooms, GHA, etc. A lot of ugly! We quarantine and dip all New coral and fish in 2 separate 10 gallon aquariums ( I don't purchase much during the summer months-too much QT work). I care about my fish and corals and am sad if they die. My husband thinks I go overboard with "the go slow" method, but he has seen the ugly and is glad we have waited out those stages. I see this project as a long term, if not life long, adventure. Many years from now I hope to look at a beautiful tank with happy fish and corals and be amazed at how much it has developed.

 

[Bdog4u2]

I am going very slowly. Our reefer 350 has been set up for a little over a year. We have 4 small fish, a blood shrimp, and 6 small frags. 2 of the fish ( a clownfish, and watchman goby) are about 5 years old and transferred from an old FOWLR tank. We sarted with all dead rock and dry sand in order to avoid pests such as worms, aptasia, etc. We have a very tiny amount of coralline algae starting. Our FOWLR ( started with live rock and sand) was purple with coralline and cycled in no time, however it had many undesirable pests. That was fine for a FOWLR. We didn't want those issues with a reef tank. This is why we used all dead and dry rock. The reef tank has gone through MANY phases from slime, diatoms or dinos, bacteria blooms, GHA, etc. A lot of ugly! We quarantine and dip all New coral and fish in 2 separate 10 gallon aquariums ( I don't purchase much during the summer months-too much QT work). I care about my fish and corals and am sad if they die. My husband thinks I go overboard with "the go slow" method, but he has seen the ugly and is glad we have waited out those stages. I see this project as a long term, if not life long, adventure. Many years from now I hope to look at a beautiful tank with happy fish and corals and be amazed at how much it has developed.

For my patience i have been rewarded with several fish over 10 years old and one 16 years old and I've never had a major tank crash in almost 20 years and probably 30 tanks

 

[BlennyKravitz]

Hi. Devil's advocate newbie here. Attached is a photo of my 525XL at 2 months and me being a fool STUFFING it with LPS, a bird nest, 16 fish (one yellow tang. I learned a blue tang shouldn't be in a small tank - Aqua medic traps FTW)

The other photos are eight months later. I have 37 different acropora, a maxima that is thriving, RBTA has split four times and the kids named our mandarin "Oprah"

I think I'm a bit different than most new reefers because I'm in the home automation business and things like the Apex are like second nature. I'm also a chemistry buff and I'm Chinese, so we do math for fun. I also read read read read everything I can about this hobby. You have to figure out who has the same philosophy as you and then you have to figure out who truly is inmovative and who just has a lot of experience.

I have learned from building very high end homes that the guys who have been building for a long time are successful when they appreciate new concepts, new technology and new ideology.

I would agree that going slow is best for most, but I like to think I did I pretty decent job getting this to where it is. It's probably going to crash now that I posted this, but I am an autopilot now. Dosing pumps do their thing and an auto water changer is doing 1G every 12 hours. Only thing I do is feed the feesh, change media once a month, scrape the glass/socks and that's pretty much it.

I'm done stocking after eight months. Maybe some rare acros or acans, but I'm done.

You'll see a red dragon, Strawberry shortcake, red planet, AquaSD rainbow Millie and a Disney Tennis all encrusting and throwing out huge polyps. I don't feed my scolys and acans eat 2x a week.

Cheers to all you freaks!

 

[BlennyKravitz]

Disney tenuis not tennis.

 

[FishGuyBri]

Disney tenuis not tennis.

dang autocorrect lol

 

[bios]

With money everything is possible that could be a phylosofy
But is not mine anyway
I personally respect and appreciate those one that with patience and using their minds try to do an ecosystem in a plastic recipe also if in that recipe
There is only one coral with not a name and only one fish....but they make that fish live for 20 years or more

 

[justingraham]

Wonder what made you start this thread ... how about you do things your way and let everyone else do things there way ? Appreciate your trying to help but not everyone wants a big empty glass box with 1 tiny frag and 1 snail in for 12 months. Jeez get over it

First off this guy u need to relax. I do not always see eye to eye with the op but I do know I have learned a lot from them. Mccarrol wasn't trying to hijack ur thread or passively try to belittle u or whatever ur thinking my guess was mcarrol was trying to help and said something u did not want to hear and that's what u took out of it instead of realizing carrol was only trying to help I didn't read ur thread but a clown tang and a pbt in a 525 no matter what the size isn't a good idea so calm down. I do enjoy that comment tho because I used to use it "well they are small tangs so there fine". "Or when they get bigger I'll get a bigger tank". Then ur always wondering why everyone else is tank is doing better then urs and the fish never last more then six months.

Now on to the topic most people do not want to see just rock for a year. The tank is in the living room or somewhere else we just spent enough money to get America out of dept and we don't want to look at a box of water if we did we could have saved a ton of money and just fill up the bathroom tub. Now there are success stories of people setting up tanks over night and they look great but the one thing we are all missing is that this isn't their first or second fish tank. They have been in the hobby for a while and know what to look for because they have made all those mistakes before.

I understand the idea of taking it slow to understand "ur " tank better because every tank is different. Some people can tell their parameters are off by looking at their corals or the way their fish are swimming. I think that's amazing but that comes with time and knowing ur tank by taking it slow and watching it.

So I believe that if u take it slow it can only benifit you but at the same time no one wants to look at an empty tank besides @mcarroll who enjoys the three blennies. But that's ok mccarrol is just a different beast then the rest of us. So I don't think (depending on the size of your tank) adding six fish say three chromis a blennie and two clown fish in a year is a bad thing it give u the movement but at the same time are hardier fish that can take the ups and downs of a new tank. I also believe coral are very adaptive more then we give them credit for but that's me.

Also when it is all said and done it's your tank your going to do what u want with it. Maby I have lost my fair share of fish and coral that I am happy to take it slow and appreciate a tank full of rock now because there is life on that rock and it is beautiful.

Like I started off this thread I do not always agree with mccarrol but I do respect everything you do for this form and also for always having a different approach to the hobby that I enjoy to hear so thank you. Helped me out tons. Also nice thread subject for a cold sunny Saturday.

 

[RMS18]

The industry definitely promotes these "quickly" stocked tanks. When I first got into the hobby I plead guilty for going to fast to soon. I had a "fix in a bottle" for whatever issue that came up. Once I had some failures I took that step back and let the system do its thing. I threw away all the bottles and never looked back. I believe going slow allows for a stronger better system in the future.

 

[FrankiePuffer]

I have been keeping salt on and off for years and I too believe balance and not overstocking in waves is best but a comment on this as well. Over the years I have seen a HUGE change in resources for fish keeping. My first salt was undergravel with power heads and tube lighting for fish only. Slow was required, there was no live rock, sumps, refugium, reactor s or even good food. A lot has changed to improve the hobby and the conditions for our living charges and I think that needs to be considered. I would not wait a year or only stock 1 fish a year, I would consider stocking 1 larger fish once every 6 months or so or the same for a group of smaller fish. Even with advances the biological factors time is needed to balance after any additions.
I think a new start without transfers of rock, filter material or any other pre_existing bioload should go at least 6 weeks but less if you can incorporate pieces of an existing bioload.