Nuisance sponge removal id?

707Nick · Jan 8, 2023

So I believe this is some kind of sponge webbing across my lower base rock work. Any suggestions on how to remove it or animals that will do it naturally without destroying my LPS. I have the sponge underlined with a red arrow. please help and thank you. Happy Reefing. At first I did not mind it, but I have seen it now grow over some of my corals and suffocate them. Now my wife’s asking me about the ugly web, definitely time to go. Thank you again, everybody

RedReefer · Jan 8, 2023

I’ve had those before growing past reef tanks. Never caused a problem don’t know the name.

bushdoc · Jan 8, 2023

This guy on the picture below definitely its sponges, but it probably wouldn't fit in your tank?
Some angelfish do.
There are not many creatures eating sponges and most reefers including myself do not regard them as pest. YMMV though and there are some species which are toxic, but not the one you have.
Sponges likes silica and micro-plankton, so perhaps that would be an answer how to slow their spread.

ISpeakForTheSeas · Jan 8, 2023

707Nick said:
So I believe this is some kind of sponge webbing across my lower base rock work. Any suggestions on how to remove it or animals that will do it naturally without destroying my LPS. I have the sponge underlined with a red arrow. please help and thank you. Happy Reefing. At first I did not mind it, but I have seen it now grow over some of my corals and suffocate them. Now my wife’s asking me about the ugly web, definitely time to go. Thank you again, everybody

Generally speaking, the easiest way to remove sponges is to scrape them off (the best recommendation I've seen for this is to scrape it off and suction it out).

Other suggestions include exposing the sponge to air (obviously not a guaranteed solution, and definitely not viable for this situation); hydrogen peroxide dipping the sponge (again, not viable here); injecting the sponge with hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, boiling water, or air; microbubbles in the display; and a few more. Predation is not usually a good solution for this issue, and I explain why below:

ISpeakForTheSeas said:
Just to put this out there - the problem with using biological controls (i.e. something that eats it) with sponges is that there are a ton of different sponges, some of which look indistinguishable from others. Some of these sponges are inedible or extremely undesirable foods to some species (either because of chemical defenses* or just because of taste preferences) while being highly desirable to other species. So, even if you pull in a known sponge-eating species of fish/starfish/whatever, there's no guarantee it will eat the sponge you want it to eat. Also, many of these sponge-eating species eat other things (like coral) that you might not want them eating.

Long story short, manual removal is probably your best option for sponges until more study has been on both specific sponges and specific sponge-eaters, but you can try it if you want.

*Just as a note on the chemical defenses of sponges, many sponges produce chemicals to avoid being eaten. Some of these chemicals are more generalized, some of them are specifically anti-fish, some are specifically anti-echinoderm (starfish, urchin, etc.), etc. So, again, some things might eat one sponge but not another, and because of the whole indistinguishable thing mentioned above, the sponges that are and are not being eaten may look pretty much identical (some may be distinguished/ID'ed under microscopic investigation, others may need to be DNA tested to be distinguished/ID'ed).

Just my two cents here.

707Nick · Jan 8, 2023

ISpeakForTheSeas said:
Generally speaking, the easiest way to remove sponges is to scrape them off (the best recommendation I've seen for this is to scrape it off and suction it out).

Other suggestions include exposing the sponge to air (obviously not a guaranteed solution, and definitely not viable for this situation); hydrogen peroxide dipping the sponge (again, not viable here); injecting the sponge with hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, boiling water, or air; microbubbles in the display; and a few more. Predation is not usually a good solution for this issue, and I explain why below:

So if I decide to try the injection method I would only be able to inject it into small spaces. The webbing is not thicker than a couple millimeters in any given space. So if I inject it will it travel through the sponge or only kill that space? On the note of using vinegar or hydrogen peroxide, what would be the ratios that I would use to put into the syringe? I also thought about setting an air stone down in that area. I don’t mind having bubbles in the water for a few days to kill it back but with putting an air stone and having it run 24 hours have an adverse effect on the ecosystem in the tank? I have a large skimmer hooked up to a CO2 scrubber below thanks for your time and responses everybody

707Nick · Jan 8, 2023

bushdoc said:
This guy on the picture below definitely its sponges, but it probably wouldn't fit in your tank?
Some angelfish do.
There are not many creatures eating sponges and most reefers including myself do not regard them as pest. YMMV though and there are some species which are toxic, but not the one you have.
Sponges likes silica and micro-plankton, so perhaps that would be an answer how to slow their spread.

I run a carbon and GFO scrubbers currently 24 hours I had them on 12 and 12 but my phosphates were rising so I bring them back to you on all the time. Would that make any difference wouldn’t that remove the Silica?

ISpeakForTheSeas · Jan 8, 2023

707Nick said:
So if I decide to try the injection method I would only be able to inject it into small spaces. The webbing is not thicker than a couple millimeters in any given space. So if I inject it will it travel through the sponge or only kill that space? On the note of using vinegar or hydrogen peroxide, what would be the ratios that I would use to put into the syringe? I also thought about setting an air stone down in that area. I don’t mind having bubbles in the water for a few days to kill it back but with putting an air stone and having it run 24 hours have an adverse effect on the ecosystem in the tank? I have a large skimmer hooked up to a CO2 scrubber below thanks for your time and responses everybody

I’m honestly not sure if it would kill the whole sponge or just that spot, but I’d imagine (depending on the species) that it would probably just kill that spot. Most people just fill the syringe with the stuff without further dilution (standard household vinegar is ~5% acetic acid, and the most common hydrogen peroxide available is 3%, but I’ve heard of people using undiluted 35%). My understanding is the main thing is just to not use too much at once. I’ve seen people say they use ~2ml per injection, and I’ve seen some people say that they’ll only use 15-30ml per treatment - the limit is really determined more by tank water volume than anything else, and I’m not sure how much can be added at once per gallon (dumping too much hydrogen peroxide or vinegar into your tank at one time could cause issues). You also want to be careful not to take out your corals with this, as if the corals get hit by the spray of the injection, it could cause issues for them too.

The airstone could potentially have some effect on the ecosystem, but unless it harms your corals by hitting them with too many bubbles (I have no idea if this is a valid concern or not - I haven’t looked into it, and my coral knowledge is admittedly limited at this point), I’d guess any effects will be minimal. So, I wouldn’t expect any problems. That said, though, even if the bubbles kill off some bacteria on your rock, it shouldn’t do enough damage to cause problems, and the bacteria will regrow quickly (biofilms tend to take about six weeks to “mature,” so I’d guess any bacterial/microbiome damage would be totally healed within two months).

bushdoc · Jan 8, 2023

One more think to ponder-sponges are phylogenetically ( regarding their evolutionary development) very primitive organisms and they are able to regenerate from very few cells. So mechanical removal might be a bit difficult.
GFO will remove silica to some extend. I guess you are using RODI water, because municipal water frequently contains elevated levels of silica and RODI removes them.

707Nick · Jan 8, 2023

ISpeakForTheSeas said:
I’m honestly not sure if it would kill the whole sponge or just that spot, but I’d imagine (depending on the species) that it would probably just kill that spot. Most people just fill the syringe with the stuff without further dilution (standard household vinegar is ~5% acetic acid, and the most common hydrogen peroxide available is 3%, but I’ve heard of people using undiluted 35%). My understanding is the main thing is just to not use too much at once. I’ve seen people say they use ~2ml per injection, and I’ve seen some people say that they’ll only use 15-30ml per treatment - the limit is really determined more by tank water volume than anything else, and I’m not sure how much can be added at once per gallon (dumping too much hydrogen peroxide or vinegar into your tank at one time could cause issues). You also want to be careful not to take out your corals with this, as if the corals get hit by the spray of the injection, it could cause issues for them too.

The airstone could potentially have some effect on the ecosystem, but unless it harms your corals by hitting them with too many bubbles (I have no idea if this is a valid concern or not - I haven’t looked into it, and my coral knowledge is admittedly limited at this point), I’d guess any effects will be minimal. So, I wouldn’t expect any problems. That said, though, even if the bubbles kill off some bacteria on your rock, it shouldn’t do enough damage to cause problems, and the bacteria will regrow quickly (biofilms tend to take about six weeks to “mature,” so I’d guess any bacterial/microbiome damage would be totally healed within two months).

Thank you thank you for the in-depth response. I won’t be doing any kind of injections. I think I’m going to do some manual removal. I.e. suck it out while doing a water change tomorrow. I think I will also try the air stone or at least I’m thinking about it. Thank you very much for all the in-depth information again.

707Nick · Jan 8, 2023

bushdoc said:
One more think to ponder-sponges are phylogenetically ( regarding their evolutionary development) very primitive organisms and they are able to regenerate from very few cells. So mechanical removal might be a bit difficult.
GFO will remove silica to some extend. I guess you are using RODI water, because municipal water frequently contains elevated levels of silica and RODI removes them.

We’re on a shared well, and I use a five stage BRS RODI. Thank you for sharing the science behind the sponge.