Nutrient Export - Macroalgae vs Bacteria

[CloudReefer]

Hi all, I was wondering if you could replace running macroalgae refugiums with carbon dosing for nutrient control/export. I have not tried carbon dosing, but conceptually it seems like it might be easier to maintain levels of nitrate and phosphates by dosing vs estimating with mass of macroalgae. That combined with the bacteria being eaten by filter feeders seems like a win:win.

In my tank I am having a hard time maintaining detectable levels of NO3 and PO4 with heavy feeding and a small amount of chaeto. I thought I might have an easier time with an easy to control dosing regimen.

Thoughts?

 

[Dan_P]

Hi all, I was wondering if you could replace running macroalgae refugiums with carbon dosing for nutrient control/export. I have not tried carbon dosing, but conceptually it seems like it might be easier to maintain levels of nitrate and phosphates by dosing vs estimating with mass of macroalgae. That combined with the bacteria being eaten by filter feeders seems like a win:win.

In my tank I am having a hard time maintaining detectable levels of NO3 and PO4 with heavy feeding and a small amount of chaeto. I thought I might have an easier time with an easy to control dosing regimen.

Thoughts?

I would not grow Cheato nor carbon dose if nitrate is too low.

 

[CloudReefer]

I would not grow Cheato nor carbon dose if nitrate is too low.

Agreed, so I keep my chaeto very small. I just don't want to remove it only to need it later.

My thoughts were that I could get rid of the chaeto permanently, and when NO3 and PO4 reach good levels start with very small amounts of carbon dosing to maintain those levels and never worry about chaeto again.

 

[Pod_01]

I prefer to carbon dose, mainly to feed the bacteria so corals have additional source of food and PO4.
I didn’t have success with macroalgae and at the end felt like I was maintaining another fresh water tank. Also I did not have much luck with carbon dosing for nutrients control.
But with current method of dosing 0.5-1 ml per 100l (NP Bacto Ballance) the corals look happy and the nutrients did come down as well. Just my experience.

 

[Dan_P]

Agreed, so I keep my chaeto very small. I just don't want to remove it only to need it later.

My thoughts were that I could get rid of the chaeto permanently, and when NO3 and PO4 reach good levels start with very small amounts of carbon dosing to maintain those levels and never worry about chaeto again.

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, your plan can work.

 

[CloudReefer]

I prefer to carbon dose, mainly to feed the bacteria so corals have additional source of food and PO4.
I didn’t have success with macroalgae and at the end felt like I was maintaining another fresh water tank. Also I did not have much luck with carbon dosing for nutrients control.
But with current method of dosing 0.5-1 ml per 100l (NP Bacto Ballance) the corals look happy and the nutrients did come down as well. Just my experience.

Bacto balance was my plan, combined with the All 4 Reef I am using for alkalinity.

 

[CloudReefer]

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, your plan can work.

I wasn't very clear in my original post.

 

[Dan_P]

I wasn't very clear in my original post.

No prob. Sometimes I don’t read so good

 

[CloudReefer]

No prob. Sometimes I don’t read so good

If I make the switch to carbon (bacto or vodka or whatever), are bacterial blooms from overdosing the main way to screw it up?

Open to any advice as I have zero experience here.

Thank you!

 

[Dan_P]

If I make the switch to carbon (bacto or vodka or whatever), are bacterial blooms from overdosing the main way to screw it up?

Open to any advice as I have zero experience here.

Thank you!

Bacteria blooms would occur at high carbon concentrations but these disappear when the carbon concentration declines.

 

[bobnicaragua]

If you have low nutrients and not much cheato, the cheato is working against you. You don’t need it. Same with carbon dosing.

I run a filter sock, skimmer, and a bag of carbon in my SPS tank. I have to feed heavy and skim very dry to keep my nutrients detectable.

 

[zoomonster]

I'm using Chaeto and Elimi-NP to control mine but I typically run high nutrients. For the ultra-low nutrient crowd there is NP-Bacto Balance. It actually adds a small amount of phosphate and nitrate for bacteria to consume while at the same time feeding corals both bacteria and nutrients.

 

[Pod_01]

All 4 Reef I am using for alkalinity.

Just to clarify All 4 reef does calciun, mag and trace elements as well. Alk is just one of the components of All 4 Reef and you don’t want to accidentally overdose the other components.

Both Bacto Ballance and All 4 Reef are good products to start with. Once you get corals growing and build up confidence you can migrate/try other methods.

 

[CloudReefer]

Just to clarify All 4 reef does calciun, mag and trace elements as well. Alk is just one of the components of All 4 Reef and you don’t want to accidentally overdose the other components.

Both Bacto Ballance and All 4 Reef are good products to start with. Once you get corals growing and build up confidence you can migrate/try other methods.

Yeah I know, am researching that now. So far I've seen the TM Bolling guy say the amounts are so small as long as you aren't going over the maximum dose it should be fine.

Awesome, yeah I'm not really able to get things dialed in with the chaeto so I'm excited to give this a try.

 

[CloudReefer]

If you have low nutrients and not much cheato, the cheato is working against you. You don’t need it. Same with carbon dosing.

I run a filter sock, skimmer, and a bag of carbon in my SPS tank. I have to feed heavy and skim very dry to keep my nutrients detectable.

I am going to remove the chaeto soon and won't start dosing anything until the nutrients get up there. I'm not running an ultra low system intentionally lol

I'm going to add more livestock soon. Very light at the moment which is part of it.

 

[bushdoc]

There's certain overlap between carbon dosing and macroalgae refugium, but primarily refugium removes phosphates more than nitrates and carbon dosing opposite-more nitrates than phosphates, so it is possible to run them both consecutively.
In my experience it is fairly easy to overshoot with carbon dosing and bacterial bloom can linger a bit even after you stop dosing, so I would be careful with it.
For me, refugium to lower phosphates and skimmer to prevent nitrates build up is optimal combination.

 

[bobnicaragua]

There's certain overlap between carbon dosing and macroalgae refugium, but primarily refugium removes phosphates more than nitrates and carbon dosing opposite-more nitrates than phosphates, so it is possible to run them both consecutively.
In my experience it is fairly easy to overshoot with carbon dosing and bacterial bloom can linger a bit even after you stop dosing, so I would be careful with it.
For me, refugium to lower phosphates and skimmer to prevent nitrates build up is optimal combination.

I agree with the technicality of this post, bushdoc knows what he’s talking about. But don’t forget, the OP has low nutrients already. Corals need nutrients. It seems to me, the focus should be on getting nutrients up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

IMO, one can use either or both of carbon dosing and macroalgae for nutrient export. I used both at the same time.