Nuvo 10 Crash?

[MattR]

Hi everybody, new member and my first post so I hope this is the right place; I need help with my nuvo 10 ASAP!

To begin, this nuvo 10 was set up about 3 months ago, cycled and all (came over from freshwater so not that much of a newbie). Easy coral was not added until a month ago and fish 3 weeks ago. Everything was going great, zoa and kenya tree coral fully open and clownfish pair eating healthy. Of course, this all changed right before I went on vacation.

The night before vacation around midnight, I noticed my pair of clowns stuck to the overflow with almost all their color gone and barely alive. Quickly doing a 30% water change and sticking an airstone in the next morning they were doing fine. Having my dad take care of the tank he noted that fish gained their color back and everything was fine (this was about 12 hours from when I first noticed the problem) so I told him to take unplug the airstone. Everything was fine until 3-4 days later when I received a call that the clowns had passed . My brother quickly removed them and told me that all the corals were completely fine.

Fast forward to Wednesday of this week (about a week or so since this whole problem started), I came home to notice remains of what looked like detritus all over the sand bed, looking around I noticed my starfish was nowhere to be found. Yes, I know starfish often never make it in the home aquarium but I received this livestock as a whole package from someone. Now concluding that the starfish died as well as the clowns, the nutrients were super high. I did a 100% water change matching the temp and salinity. That is when everything got worse (as the pictures shown below). All the Kenya tree frags are "sad" and the zoas are definitely not happy. Another thing I noticed was that bristleworms are now out during the day when they never use to be (high nutrients in the tank and they are looking to scavenge?). None the less I took all my water samples over to the LFS, Petco (desperate times call for desperate measures), and my own test kits:

All the tests at different places read no ammonia, no nitrate, no nitrite and a pH of 7.5 or so.

**The one thing that was out of whack was Petco said their refractometer read 1.030. Nothing like what mine read. A new refractometer will be coming tomorrow. Could this be the issue for all this? Any idea why these clowns suddenly passed and then the starfish?

Sorry for the long post but I would love some help to figure this issue and learn! Thank you

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

That ph could cause some issues... I'm not sure on much else. Hopefully someone else can chime in and give some advise I'm so sorry this Is happening!

 

[MattR]

@Jake_the_reefer Thank you! The only reason why I believe that pH was not that big of a deal was that I tested pH was I first set up the tank and that's what it was when I started and everything was the same and healthy

 

[brandon429]

the #1 thing you should do is pick one course of action from any poster who offers a feasible one vs blend them to see what works. if that was my tank I would redo the cleaning, the sand would be rinsed out 100% cloudless before re installation, all rocks swished clean of that detritus in buckets of clean saltwater, and put back the tank on another full water change after salinity is verified, at least with a swingarm hydrometer if refractometer cannot be assured.

There is nothing wrong with swingarm meters, thats all Ill ever use. of course refracts are great, but if there's a question with yours/try old school option too they're close enough to work for me for 20 yrs.

The reason I'd redo the change: because this round leaves no clouding which is an ammonia risk/source. if there is any irritant in the water currently, that'll be removed. We know from other cleaning threads that to clean a tank, do a 100% water change is not harmful I have done over 5000 on my nano for sure. Something else is out of line, and frankly those corals might perk up just fine tomorrow anyway but that detritus needs to go, its algae feed coming up.

in my opinion you could be dealing with a loss cascade/worms about, and this above is the proper intervention for any nano reef in distress, its like tank CPR.

the thorough cleaning allows you to reassemble a reef that has no wasteful organics packed in it.

**others would recommend the polar opposite* as in something careful, guided, and easy going. this is why Id recommend pick one and work a method fully, then try another after exhausting a particular method fully. be thorough vs in portions, safest action for your small nano. my zoas look like that after most water changes, they don't look bad to me at all.

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

+1 redo everything. When I had to redo my fusion 10g nano I scrubbed all surfaces did 2 100% water changes and 25% daily for a few days. However that brought apon me the worst algae outbreaks I had ever seen (I switched to rodi now) after using some seachem stability for a few days my tank is happy and living again. This process took me about a month to get my tank clean and healthy. My tank was on the verge of a crash. My advise. Water changes and more water changes after cleaning

 

[MattR]

@brandon429 Thank you for your help, I was going to take out the rocks and really shake them out well. Do you think I would have to worry about the corals attached? If they are just being washed in a bucket of old seawater? I was also wary about removing the sand, as I did not know if it would release a lot of excess nutrients, but I guess if everything else is removed it would not be a big deal? I was actually using a swing arm (the IO one) thought it was accurate but maybe there something wrong after all. I now purchased a refractometer, sorry for the confusion and thanks again for the input

 

[MattR]

@Jake_the_reefer that seems to be the best option. The only issue is that I am going to Australia in a week for a month :0 . I think if I redid everything starting tomorrow (when the refractometer comes in) I could be ok?

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

@Jake_the_reefer that seems to be the best option. The only issue is that I am going to Australia in a week for a month :0 . I think if I redid everything starting tomorrow (when the refractometer comes in) I could be ok?

You could get yours done in that time.. mine took so long because I had to replace the sand.. caused a mini cycle. And I was not using rodi until half way through Just be persistant

 

[brandon429]

I'm going to link a long boring video, 33 mins long, but it has some application here. I take my 13 yr old nano reef and purposely quit changing water for two months. my prized corals from 2006, bathed in cyanobacteria outbreak. purposeful self invasion in order to show the raw power of rip cleaning.

I then proceed to drain my delicate reef to the bone, and leave it in the air for half an hour in the winter, with all my corals in 69 degree living room air sitting out in front of the reef. I restore the cyano and rip clean the whole system into compliance, its fixed overnite and the update video shows the old corals in place after so many times of doing this I cannot count, just thought Id film this round.

after cleaning and scraping for half an hour, I then run two 100% blast fills like Jake mentioned. this purposefully blasts sand all around the tank, kicking up its waste, then I siphon it back out. The final refill is clean; can go another year or two (only Ill change water weekly now and not do the cyano trick for a while lol)

You will not be keeping your corals in the air for half an hour so any way you handle them in saltwater is nicer than Ill ever be to my reef, 1/10th the size of yours. You don't have to do the crazy stuff we do, but am posting to show you how tough these nano reefs are. no normal takedown cleaning where you nicely house corals in some clean water, then clean off all the rocks in buckets, will ever be harmful or half as stressful:



overnite:

 

[MattR]

@brandon429 @Jake_the_reefer Well, both of you are starting to restore my faith in the future of the tank. Looks like I will strip it all tomorrow. If I am blasting the sand and everything can I just discard it all? Replacing new sand when I upgrade the tank when I return (planned on upgrading to the nuvo 20 I just bought) and rely on the live rock housing the beneficial bacteria? Obviously, no other livestock is going in until I return and all I have are the corals you see and maybe 4 snails

 

[brandon429]

agreed lets swap it out 100% instantly, and rinse the new sand before use. the bacteria on your rocks are enough, and whats in the sand doesn't matter its excess surface area.

here is a thread of 8 years of ripping beds out and either rinsing, or full replacing. **take pics we want to include your work here* its tank surgery full on


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

see page one for what happens if people do not pre rinse their brand new live sand ~

*when you set back up your blast cleaned tank, don't run lights at full production drop them about 40% and work back up. no full production lighting after a rip clean/important

that thread above literally has half a million bucks of others peoples reef going through surgery, yours is a direct guaranteed outcome like theirs if you don't miss any details / the important one being don't expose corals to kicked up waste. if you isolate your sensitives out of the tank for holding, then you are free to move and clean as thorough as you want, you'll never strip the bac off the live rocks and they'll run your new tank bioload instantly, with no mini cycle.

The sole cause of the re cycle or mini cycle is leaving detritus in place somewhere unaccounted for, its never caused by a lack of bacteria.

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

Replacing the sand made my process suck all that much more. If most of your bacteria is in there it may cause a cycle. I used old media from a different tank to make up for the lost bacteria.

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

But I also replaced the rock.. you have alot of rock so you should be good to scrap that sand tbh

 

[MattR]

@Jake_the_reefer @brandon429 you guys are the best! I will start this all tomorrow once that refractometer gets here. Will upload pictures of the breakdown and set up tomorrow. Thank you both again

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

@Jake_the_reefer @brandon429 you guys are the best! I will start this all tomorrow once that refractometer gets here. Will upload pictures of the breakdown and set up tomorrow. Thank you both again

Keep us updated!

 

[MattR]

*****Ok here is the Update******

As instructed by @Jake_the_reefer and @brandon429 I completely broked down the nuvo 10 and deep cleaned it.

I transferred all livestock (corals and inverts) to a bucket and placed an airstone in it throughout the day.

I rinsed the tank 3X
1st: With water and scrubbed the glass
2nd: With some white vinegar and let it sit
3rd: With water again and scrubbed
The tank was air dried for 4 hours and did not smell like vinegar

For the sand situation, I had a bucket of live sand that came with the tank I purchased (about 2 weeks ago). Figure this was a better bet than trying to deal with the original sand.

The tank was then reassembled (after the arrival of my new refractometer) and the final result is below. I even bought a new heater to eliminate the chance of stray current that may have been the issue.

thanks for all the input, now I just wait?

Corals looking just as bad as before but I feel this is normal for now as they were in a bucket for almost 9 hours.

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

*****Ok here is the Update******

As instructed by @Jake_the_reefer and @brandon429 I completely broked down the nuvo 10 and deep cleaned it.

I transferred all livestock (corals and inverts) to a bucket and placed an airstone in it throughout the day.

I rinsed the tank 3X
1st: With water and scrubbed the glass
2nd: With some white vinegar and let it sit
3rd: With water again and scrubbed
The tank was air dried for 4 hours and did not smell like vinegar

For the sand situation, I had a bucket of live sand that came with the tank I purchased (about 2 weeks ago). Figure this was a better bet than trying to deal with the original sand.

The tank was then reassembled (after the arrival of my new refractometer) and the final result is below. I even bought a new heater to eliminate the chance of stray current that may have been the issue.

thanks for all the input, now I just wait?

Corals looking just as bad as before but I feel this is normal for now as they were in a bucket for almost 9 hours.

Being in a bucket for so long they may be mad at you for a few days.

 

[Jake_the_reefer]

Best of luck!

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

Can you just push pause for a while? You said you’re leaving the country next week for an entire month, that seems like a high risk for whatever you’re setting up now

 

[MattR]

@Tuffyyyyy really contemplated that but I had no idea what I was going to do with the current livestock, maybe bring them to the lfs?