NY AQUATIC Nightmare

[Wildreefs]

First off, yes I did read the reviews before hand, however, considering almost all of the major vendors have bad feedback from time to time, I decided to give it a chance.

I am not a marine biologist, nor do I own a microscope. I can not and will not comment on things I do not know, just fact and dialogue with the vendor. After talking privately thru messenger on here with several other members, I feel its time the FACTS come out.

On July 27, 2019 I received a goldflake angel, as well as a bellus angel from NY. The bellus angel, lasted a few days, before starting to swim at an angle, swimming near the surface. (swim bladder, small angel, not uncommon) Was issued credit for that. The gold flake went thru 10 days of copper, as well as prazi, before being moved to my display. It ate fine, and on day 12, he was laying at the bottom. No injuries, nothing obvious other than laying sideways. The next morning he was dead.

Contacted michael, and was asked if anything was done differently or amiss. Stated I did shut down powerheads and return pumps in order to glue in some SPS from a respected vendor on here. I use IC gel coral glue, all the lfs sell. He told me it was my fault, the angel probably ate glue.

I stated the obvious, thinking that was nonsense, and my other 15 fish (including a small hippo tang, blotchy anthias, leopard wrasse etc), no response. I then ordered a gem tang, for a good price, which has no gaurantee. Thats fine, I understood the no gaurantee prior to ordering it. It lived two days, swam funky, always around the power head, and died. Again, it was understood no gaurantee, no problem. Credit was also issued for a blue line angel that arrived sideways and was dead shortly after. Also ordered a watanabei which never shipped because he didnt like the way it looked. Was told I would be refunded, (this was a wednesday) and a few days later I asked what the status was of refund, several times, and got a response that he just issued store credit for fish that didnt ship. (why did it take several attempts, and then you issue store credit, not the refund you initially said)

So far, Im out the goldflake. Fast forward to last week, with the credit I had, I ordered a mitratus butterfly, along with a scribbled angel. Today, the scribbled is dead. They are in qt, along with a small mag foxface, and an earmuff wrasse I picked up two weeks ago locally.

The wonderful response was today my qt is not working, he can no longer offer me the 14 day gaurantee (was there any to begin with?) My qt protocol needs to be revisited:

Since ive lost the gem from him in two days, Ive changed nothing, and this has been the result"

Another gem from a different vendor, two weeks in qt, and happily in my DT. A rosebanded wrasses, mystery wrasse, magma wrasse as well as a red sea 8 line wrasse. All right after i lost his gem, in same tank, same conditions, all now in my display.

Right now, in my qt, is the mag fox, the mitratus from NY, and an earmuff wrasse. The scribble was in there the whole time with them, until its passing. He issued $8 credit, using the money I put in for the difference Ive added to make up between the total and the store credit I had.

In short, does not honor gaurantees, blames my quarantine (3 dead, all from him, scribbled, gold flake and Bellus) meanwhile, 1 from him and 7 others are perfectly fine in or have been in same quarantine the scribbled didnt make it in.

I will contact my bank, let them know what happened, the time frames, and if they determine he didnt reach his end of the agreement (gaurantee) hopefully they do the right thing. Ive messaged others on here who have lost a gem from him, and they all exhibited similar scenario as me, fish came in, ate , two days later dead.

I rather not have a gaurantee, only to have one, then be told frag glue and quarantine killed the fish ( which again, picked up another gem elsewhere, hes fine, along with 7 other fish in my qt that doesnt work.

Done speaking with NY, they are super fast to answer questions via email prior to sale, however, afterwards not so much.

Time frame

Goldflake died after 12 days, inside 14 day gaurantee, no gaurantee.

Scribbled died 7 days after, inside 14 day gaurantee, nothing.














Last

 

[Wildreefs]

Again, I wont speculate, because I am not a scientist, not sure if they have ailments or what, but the facts dont lie. Fish arrived, 12 days later, dead, no gaurantee. Purchased fish elsewhere, same qt set up, they are fine. I order again from this guy, 6 days later dead, again no gaurantee.

I am a fact guy. Do i think a tang swimming into the powerhead is indicative of velvet? Maybe, but dont know for sure.

End of the day, on his website says gladly issue credit if dead in 14 days, which is obviously not the case.

Found it ironic he said going forward he could no longer offer me 14 day gaurantee, as if it applied here.

I mean, if I tell you wednesday, fish didnt ship, didnt like the way it looked, and I would issue refund today. Two days go by, you ask the status of it, and I say I will issue credit today. What happened to refund 48 hours before you said you were issuing refund, why did it take several more emails about status for you to give store credit now instead of refund said two days before.

My whole point is why offer gaurantee, and then when called upon, find fault ( coral glue, improper set up in qt, even tho its working fine for 3 others right now, including 1 from him, as well as several fish including a gem tang a few weeks ago)

Chalk it up to this sentiment, couldnt get credit on goldflake, because although it did die inside 14 day gaurantee, I used coral glue for some sps, and it killed the angel. Thats insulting. Apparently the 15 others in my tank have an immunity to frag glue.

 

[Wildreefs]

That second post was in response to a reply from a member which looks to be deleted ( rules I understand)

Hopefully the bank sees the whole story and sees who bought fish with the assumption of a gaurantee. Again, only using facts here, no opinion. I have all the emails, date of arrivals, date I emailed him photos of deceased fish, numbers do not lie.

 

[NYAquatic]

I normally know better than to respond to nonsense like this, but feel a couple clarifications are warranted.

First off, here's a picture of his QT tank that he sent me. Definitely concerning.

In terms of my not giving credit for the goldflake, here's his email to me re:
The fish came in great, ate off the bat, you did your part. Just sucks losing a fish like that 12 days in or so, part of the hobby I suppose.
Now that's me not honoring my warranty?

In terms of the gem, again, his email to me:
He ate Wednesday the day I got him, and Thursday as well. Thursday evening, I did 3.5 ml prazi pro, for roughly 15 gallons of tank water volume.

He didn’t eat that night, nor the next day (Friday). Spend a lot of time in one corner. Knowing it suppressed appetite, I wasn’t too overly worried about it.

Last night, after 24 hrs in prazi, I did a 50 percent water change on tank. As I was siphoning water out, he laid down in corner. I took the water out, roughly half, and filled with clean water, same salinity, within a half degree of same temp water, and turned pumps back on. He got up, but quickly laid down again. I turned the lights off and left the room.

Dead this morning. Appeared to be on thinner side, maybe from not eating yesterday.

Fish eats day of arrival, next day, then he medicates and does a bunch of stuff with a really shaky QT tank, and loses the fish.

And now the scribble, that I got MAY 19. He has it a week, no issued, then like all the others, drops dead out of nowhere.

so yes, there's definitely a pattern. Can't say for sure what's going on, but all the fish come in fine, eat then drop dead all of a sudden.

 

[Wildreefs]

I normally know better than to respond to nonsense like this, but feel a couple clarifications are warranted.


Clarifications are good, lets people see the whole picture, lets stick with fact however.

First off, here's a picture of his QT tank that he sent me. Definitely concerning.

Great picture of the 20 gallon I had set up, bleached in fear of velvet (based on way tang started to act) I then took the newly cleaned filter, purchased a 30 cube, used biospira to cycle it, put a new gem, handful of wrasses thru it, before moving them into my display, and then getting a mag fox, ear muff wrasse, along with the two I bought from you ( scribbled, mitratus) Yes, 4 fish in a a 30 cube, 75 gallons worth of biospira, and water changes of 10 gallons every 3 days. Worked on gem an aforementioned fish quite fine.

In terms of my not giving credit for the goldflake, here's his email to me re:
The fish came in great, ate off the bat, you did your part. Just sucks losing a fish like that 12 days in or so, part of the hobby I suppose.
Now that's me not honoring my warranty?

This was after you told me I must have screwed up with the glue, then not a single response afterwards. You said something must be screwy with the tank, he must have eaten glue.

I informed you the fish was dead, and nothing was said. No credit issued, nothing. After I saw I was not getting any responses, I said stuff happens, something must have spooked him. What more must one do to get the gaurantee? Keep begging, tell you, ask you? It should be hey he died, its day 12, and that should be enough. Never said I dont want you to honor your gaurantee, after not getting any response, that was me waving my hands saying I got beat. Still not resolved.

In terms of the gem, again, his email to me:
He ate Wednesday the day I got him, and Thursday as well. Thursday evening, I did 3.5 ml prazi pro, for roughly 15 gallons of tank water volume.

He didn’t eat that night, nor the next day (Friday). Spend a lot of time in one corner. Knowing it suppressed appetite, I wasn’t too overly worried about it.

Last night, after 24 hrs in prazi, I did a 50 percent water change on tank. As I was siphoning water out, he laid down in corner. I took the water out, roughly half, and filled with clean water, same salinity, within a half degree of same temp water, and turned pumps back on. He got up, but quickly laid down again. I turned the lights off and left the room.

Dead this morning. Appeared to be on thinner side, maybe from not eating yesterday.



Fish eats day of arrival, next day, then he medicates and does a bunch of stuff with a really shaky QT tank, and loses the fish.

Medicates a bunch of stuff? please specify, copper and prazi is run of the mill stuff every LFS uses. Thats going to kill a fish in 2 days? again, gem I knew there was no gaurantee. took a chance on a cheap fish, didnt pan out. Picked one up from a store in the Bronx, still have it 1 month later, my qt must be so bad.



And now the scribble, that I got MAY 19. He has it a week, no issued, then like all the others, drops dead out of nowhere.

Within 14 days, leaving that little detail out. Ive seen many fish, at a lot of lfs, who seem fine one day, dead the next. He dropped dead out of nowhere, in the same tank as the mitratus from you, a mag fox and an earmuff.

so yes, there's definitely a pattern. Can't say for sure what's going on, but all the fish come in fine, eat then drop dead all of a sudden.

I do indeed see a pattern. Fish bought the last 6 weeks:

NY Aquatic: Golden dwarf moray eel: made it thru qt, sold to a reefer with netted tank, seeing as he was almost successful jumping from mine
Mitratus Butterfly: 1 week doing fine
Gem Tang dead in 2 days
Goldflake: Dead after 12 days, nothing obviously wrong to me, died within 14 days
Scribbled: Dead after 7 days, out of nowhere

Aquatic obsessions:
Mag fox: 2 weeks going strong (currently in qt with butterfly, ear muff)
Ear Muff wrasse: 2 weeks going strong (currently in qt with mag, butterfly)

Salgado Aquatics:
Gem tang (4 weeks going strong)
Magma wrasse (4 weeks going strong)
Rosebanded wrasse (4 weeks going strong)
Mystery wrasse (4 weeks strong)
8 line flasher (4 weeks strong)

3 dead, all from NY, 8 alive and doing great. (1 from NY, 7 elsewhere)

At the end of the day, his gaurantee states 14 days, photo on piece of paper. I did that, and there was no gaurantee.

Lastly, about the quarantine, I will upload a photo of what I am using. I use the same set up, but instead of the 20 gallon long (some use 10 gallon qt, not interested in hearing about 20 being too small) I went with a 30 cube, same heater, same HOB filter, same biospira bacteria, and 8 of 11 fish are and have been fine.

 

[Wildreefs]

Here’s a picture of quarantine scribbled died in:

 

[Wildreefs]

Photos from today, in which scribbled was dead in after 7 days. As you can see the others in there, mag fox , butterfly and earmuff are doing fine.

 

[Wildreefs]

Photo of my main tank, including gem I got after the one from NY died. All went thru qt, all those fish

 

[Wildreefs]

I’ll leave it at just this, before contacting bank tomorrow.

14 day gaurantee. On day 12, I email Michael telling him the goldflake is dead. I include a picture of it dead.

He’s claiming he got that, but I denied the gaurantee. How did I do that, when I emailed him it died with a photo? Was I just sharing that with him strumming up casual conversation? What other reason would I be telling him.

So after hours of no response, me saying stuff happens it’s fish, undoes the gaurantee? Figured he would try using that against me, but fact remains , fish dead before gaurantee expires, no credits.

Scribble is dead. Took 7 days, inside 14 day gaurantee, no credit. I’m told it’s the quarantine tank, but why are those 3 fish pictured fine , and the previous 5 already in my display?

 

[Wildreefs]

So far his response is I never asked for gaurantee, even tho I sent him update when it died inside 14 days, along with photo, and he was nifty enough to send you a quarantine tank photo that has been taken down out of commission since the first week of August.

Why show a picture of something that doesn’t exist anymore? Can we use facts. You assumed, and used an old photo of a tank no longer in in existence. Assuming to get out of a gaurantee. What next, are you going to find a picture of me in grade school with a goldfish in a gold fish bowl and claim i use that as a quarantine tank?

 

[NYAquatic]

I just sent the picture you sent me of your QT tank after you lost the gem.
If you've upgraded since then, great, was desperately needed.
But don't make it seem like a trolled around looking for old photos.
Who's the one being disingenuous?

 

[NYAquatic]

Again, with goldflake,
It was day 13 having a fish that was perfect
you did tank maintenance, glued coral, etc and it crashed

You notified me
Hello,

Woke up this morning and he was dead. Figured something had to be up when was laying on side yesterday.

I replied:
Something must be screwy with the tank.
No way a fish should be eating then out of nowhere dead within 24 hours
Makes no sense
Could you have gotten some glue in water?
Something messed him up

You responded:
Hey mike,

I use the IC coral glue, glue outside of tank til it starts to harden, then place in with power heads off so they harden all the way, for about a half hour.

The way I have always done it, and the other 10 fish in tank are fine. There’s a flame wrasse, hooded fairy, borbonius anthias, leopard wrasse and a few others.

Parameters are fine, 1.025 sg, 77 degrees Fahrenheit, alk 10.

I agree that shouldn’t happen that fast, but I believe if something were that off with tank, acros and other fish would be suffering as well.

The fish came in great, ate off the bat, you did your part. Just sucks losing a fish like that 12 days in or so, part of the hobby I suppose.

What I am more concerned about is the blue line. I have him and gem in a 20 gallon long that’s been running for a few months. The gem is doing great, ate right away yesterday, and is active today. The blue line didn’t eat yesterday (not concerned about that, it’s only day 1) but was swimming on a tilt (angle) My lights on quarantine tank came on at 11 (it’s a current marine led, running at 5 percent power , barely enough to light the tank and not spook them), but today the blue line was swimming vertical, head up in air, slowly, not really moving his fins.

I figured last night he not eating and swimming somewhat in an angle were just new tank, new stress etc, however 12 hours later, he looks almost upright. The gem is doing wonderfully in the same tank.

I plan on ordering another Goldflake. The one that you sent me came healthy, just whatever happened, happened. I wouldn’t be upset if there wasnt a credit for him, but maybe a partial credit toward the next goldflake.

My concern now is the blue line, only been a day with me, but he is already looking like the bellus before she conked out.

I will be ordering again, I think your quality and knowledge far surpasses what live aquaria has to offer, which is where I was before, and anything you can is much appreciated .

For reference, this was just taken, gem out and eating, blue line swimming head straight up like hes trying to walk on his tail.

I took this as you not seeking credit, which was the fair decision.
Yes, it died within 14 days so you were technically entitled to credit.
But it would have been terribly unfair, and frankly, I would have ended our business dealings then.

Anyway, I"m done.
You're obviously talking yourself into filing a fraudulent chargeback.

I have better things to do with my time

 

[Wildreefs]

I just sent the picture you sent me of your QT tank after you lost the gem.
If you've upgraded since then, great, was desperately needed.
But don't make it seem like a trolled around looking for old photos.
Who's the one being disingenuous?

You. You dug up an older picture (5 weeks) and ASSUMED that wasn’t still the quarantine tank.

Of course you did this to paint a picture of having too small of a tank for four fish. Which in turn, was false because that is not the tank.

 

[Wildreefs]

Again, with goldflake,
It was day 13 having a fish that was perfect
you did tank maintenance, glued coral, etc and it crashed

You notified me
Hello,

Woke up this morning and he was dead. Figured something had to be up when was laying on side yesterday.

I replied:
Something must be screwy with the tank.
No way a fish should be eating then out of nowhere dead within 24 hours
Makes no sense
Could you have gotten some glue in water?
Something messed him up

You responded:
Hey mike,

I use the IC coral glue, glue outside of tank til it starts to harden, then place in with power heads off so they harden all the way, for about a half hour.

The way I have always done it, and the other 10 fish in tank are fine. There’s a flame wrasse, hooded fairy, borbonius anthias, leopard wrasse and a few others.

Parameters are fine, 1.025 sg, 77 degrees Fahrenheit, alk 10.

I agree that shouldn’t happen that fast, but I believe if something were that off with tank, acros and other fish would be suffering as well.

The fish came in great, ate off the bat, you did your part. Just sucks losing a fish like that 12 days in or so, part of the hobby I suppose.

What I am more concerned about is the blue line. I have him and gem in a 20 gallon long that’s been running for a few months. The gem is doing great, ate right away yesterday, and is active today. The blue line didn’t eat yesterday (not concerned about that, it’s only day 1) but was swimming on a tilt (angle) My lights on quarantine tank came on at 11 (it’s a current marine led, running at 5 percent power , barely enough to light the tank and not spook them), but today the blue line was swimming vertical, head up in air, slowly, not really moving his fins.

I figured last night he not eating and swimming somewhat in an angle were just new tank, new stress etc, however 12 hours later, he looks almost upright. The gem is doing wonderfully in the same tank.

I plan on ordering another Goldflake. The one that you sent me came healthy, just whatever happened, happened. I wouldn’t be upset if there wasnt a credit for him, but maybe a partial credit toward the next goldflake.

My concern now is the blue line, only been a day with me, but he is already looking like the bellus before she conked out.

I will be ordering again, I think your quality and knowledge far surpasses what live aquaria has to offer, which is where I was before, and anything you can is much appreciated .

For reference, this was just taken, gem out and eating, blue line swimming head straight up like hes trying to walk on his tail.

I took this as you not seeking credit, which was the fair decision.
Yes, it died within 14 days so you were technically entitled to credit.
But it would have been terribly unfair, and frankly, I would have ended our business dealings then.

Anyway, I"m done.
You're obviously talking yourself into filing a fraudulent chargeback.

I have better things to do with my time

Again, with goldflake,
It was day 13 having a fish that was perfect
you did tank maintenance, glued coral, etc and it crashed

You notified me
Hello,

Woke up this morning and he was dead. Figured something had to be up when was laying on side yesterday.

I replied:
Something must be screwy with the tank.
No way a fish should be eating then out of nowhere dead within 24 hours
Makes no sense
Could you have gotten some glue in water?
Something messed him up

You responded:
Hey mike,

I use the IC coral glue, glue outside of tank til it starts to harden, then place in with power heads off so they harden all the way, for about a half hour.

The way I have always done it, and the other 10 fish in tank are fine. There’s a flame wrasse, hooded fairy, borbonius anthias, leopard wrasse and a few others.

Parameters are fine, 1.025 sg, 77 degrees Fahrenheit, alk 10.

I agree that shouldn’t happen that fast, but I believe if something were that off with tank, acros and other fish would be suffering as well.

The fish came in great, ate off the bat, you did your part. Just sucks losing a fish like that 12 days in or so, part of the hobby I suppose.

What I am more concerned about is the blue line. I have him and gem in a 20 gallon long that’s been running for a few months. The gem is doing great, ate right away yesterday, and is active today. The blue line didn’t eat yesterday (not concerned about that, it’s only day 1) but was swimming on a tilt (angle) My lights on quarantine tank came on at 11 (it’s a current marine led, running at 5 percent power , barely enough to light the tank and not spook them), but today the blue line was swimming vertical, head up in air, slowly, not really moving his fins.

I figured last night he not eating and swimming somewhat in an angle were just new tank, new stress etc, however 12 hours later, he looks almost upright. The gem is doing wonderfully in the same tank.

I plan on ordering another Goldflake. The one that you sent me came healthy, just whatever happened, happened. I wouldn’t be upset if there wasnt a credit for him, but maybe a partial credit toward the next goldflake.

My concern now is the blue line, only been a day with me, but he is already looking like the bellus before she conked out.

I will be ordering again, I think your quality and knowledge far surpasses what live aquaria has to offer, which is where I was before, and anything you can is much appreciated .

For reference, this was just taken, gem out and eating, blue line swimming head straight up like hes trying to walk on his tail.

I took this as you not seeking credit, which was the fair decision.
Yes, it died within 14 days so you were technically entitled to credit.
But it would have been terribly unfair, and frankly, I would have ended our business dealings then.

Anyway, I"m done.
You're obviously talking yourself into filing a fraudulent chargeback.

I have better things to do with my time

I just hope anyone reading this can read between the lines and see what’s going on here.

Me telling you a fish died in day 13 (on a 14 day gaurantee , doesn’t matter if its day 2, 6 or the 23 hour of the 13th day), not getting any response from you, then me later saying maybe a partial credit (this was pure desperation mode after seeing you ignore my emails ) is in No way me accepting a loss. (Yet you’re fast to answer sales questions. I even had my coworker email you just to se if you’d respond to them, and as expected you did, it mine )

And you keep harping in the fraudulent word. If a car was purchased with 100 k mile warranty, and in the 98k mike it breaks a trans, it’s covered. You didn’t issue me any credit for a fish that did not make it 14 days. Somehow you convinced yourself that I admitted some type of fault and no credit would be assumed.

Let’s go see your bs gaurantee in your web page, your fraudulent advertising :

Hmm “DOUBLE LIVE GAURANTEE” <sounds about right


Should be attached. Says gladly issue store credit when photo is sent within 14 days.

Now that’s fraudulent.

 

[Wildreefs]

This is the last I’ll say, evidently I have fallen in the same trap many others have already been caught it. There are many scam artists in life, just have to remind myself even in this hobby, people will lure you in with “great prices”, a fake gaurantee, all to make a buck.

Simple question for anyone;

With a 14 day gaurantee, where something guaranteed for 14 days, does day 13 fall within those days?

If it does, it should be guaranteed.

 

[Wildreefs]

And how would a chargeback be fraudulent? I wouldn’t do it for the fish that had no gaurantee.


For example, gem tang clearly stated no gaurantee, so I have no gripes there. Totally fine with that.

Fraudulent would be advertising 14 day gaurantee, then disregarding it when someone tells you they lost a fish on day 13.