What is the proper way to run an observation only (and treat when needed) quarantine? If I have had the fish for at least 30 days in qt, and have not noticed any scratching or other signs of illness, are they good to go?
Observation Only QT Procedure
- Thread starter Jim C
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You would have to observe for at least 72 days to account for ich (this is the longest observed life cycle of the parasite). This is not 100% foolproof, however, as their may be strains of ich that have a longer lifecycle. I used to do observation only QT, but found that implementing TTM was 1.) less time consuming and 2.) a more foolproof method for eliminating ich.
Greenstreet.1
5000 Club Member
? On TTM when it comes to ICH understand that you are out running the ICH in the tank by going from tank to tank but what if the ICH is inside of the fish how is TTM getting the ICH out of the fish.
Trying to understand TTM.
Ich can be in the fish's gills, but it's still attached just below the surface of the fish, and must return to open water, then down to a hard surface to encyst. It can't stay on a fish more than a few days, and never burrows deep inside the fish.
If a fish has been kept in sub-therapeutic levels of copper, it can take as much as 30 days for ich or velvet to show - and sometimes it only shows a few spots, or surfaces inside the fish's gills.
~Bruce
If a fish has been kept in sub-therapeutic levels of copper, it can take as much as 30 days for ich or velvet to show - and sometimes it only shows a few spots, or surfaces inside the fish's gills.
~Bruce
Myk
Aquatic Creations www.ReefDelivery.com
Observation only can be a very time consuming method. We use a similar method to this one in our shop https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2017/02/10/bucket-transfer-qt-method/
I feel that if we can get the fish through a comprehensive QT as quickly as possible and into a proper display that it is best for the overall health of the fish.
I feel that if we can get the fish through a comprehensive QT as quickly as possible and into a proper display that it is best for the overall health of the fish.
Greenstreet.1
5000 Club Member
Thank you.
Smo
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting article. A lot left to the reader to fill in the blanks but nevertheless intriguing. I would love to hear Humblefish’s take on it.
There are many superb stickies on disease treatment which I would consider “best practices.” And while there is excellent discussion on QT procedures there really isn’t what I would consider a “best practice,” i.e., do we perform TTM then wait for symptoms during an observation period in a HT or should we prophylactically treat with Cu (or CP) follows by an observation period, etc. And yes I know there are several advocates of disease immunity vs disease eradication but that just doesn’t seem to work for most of us.
I wish the reef squad could define a “best practice QT process” for us. Suppose we had $10K worth of livestock and we wanted to ensure a new addition did not bring in a pathogen that would wipe out the whole DT—what would we do to make the risk approach zero? If we had a “best practice” as a baseline, and we knew why what was done when, folks could weigh workload, cost and risk acceptance to either follow the procedure to the letter or tailor as their unique situation drove their decision making.
Probably just too many variables to ever get there. Each system, even each fish, is a little bit different, and what works well for one may be completely unworkable for another.
~Bruce
Greenstreet.1
5000 Club Member
After I am done qt my purple tang that is in copper power. My new procedure will be
1. Prazi
2. General cure
3. Furan-2 ( still not sure if I will do this one )
4. Watch for a week or two
5. Cp or copper
1. Prazi
2. General cure
3. Furan-2 ( still not sure if I will do this one )
4. Watch for a week or two
5. Cp or copper
USMC 4 LIFE
Valuable Member
Prazi is in general cure.
Greenstreet.1
5000 Club Member
Yes I know and understand that
TTM works by preventing the parasite from reinfecting the fish. By moving the fish to a clean tank every three days, you prevent tomonts from maturing (and in many cases, forming) and releasing new infective theronts. The feeding stage (trophont) only remains on the fish for 3-7 days.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164
Smo
Well-Known Member
You are making my case. There are so many variables and disparate systems because we lack standardization. Yes, there will always be outliers but for a vast majority of cases we should be able to define a best practice QT procedure. Too much of what we do is based on anecdotal information. It drives inconsistent results and a great deal of waste.
Myk
Aquatic Creations www.ReefDelivery.com
I like the "bucket method" a lot because it allows for individual care of each fish based on knowns and what you see as you go. We literally have to look at every single fish in our care daily. We see what goes in and what comes out of each fish every day, LOL!
For example in my shop our QT method starts at the source. We import our own livestock and are often able to get a heads up from the divers and/or receiving stations as to common issues that come in with the fish from their region. We can treat for this immediately upon arrival and since our fish are QT'd in their own cubicles there is no transfer to the other fish. For example, we have a collector that supplies us with wrasses that he has alerted us to commonly carrying Uronema and with the work of his in house marine biologist and veterinarian has come up with a very effective treatment and was able to pass along to us to implement right away.
Other fish might just have a history of carrying a certain disease and we can educate ourselves on that and be prepared for it when the fish come in. Otherwise, we just feed heavy and do a general deworming and parasite treatment with Prazi. TTM and Chloroquine phosphate daily. We also dose the cubicles with H202 daily. This process goes for at least 2 weeks and we then move the fish out to clean holding if they show no other signs of a need for treatment.
For example, I have a gorgeous Semilarvatus butterfly in the shop that looked great for the first week in QT. It developed a red and white "teardrop" shaped bump on its' side so we kept it in the QT cubicle. Bump stayed there for weeks. Fish ate great and acted perfectly normal. One day the bump was gone and the fish was completely clean. The next day it had a bunch of small white spots on both pectoral fins. We continued to keep the fish in the cubicle and maintained the basic above mentioned treatments. After another 2 weeks the bumps were gone. Continued treatment for an additional week and then stopped treatments. The fish has remained in the cubicle spot free and looking perfect with no treatment at all other than daily water changes. The fish has been in our care since September 19th! It honestly should have gone into clean holding by now, but we are renovating that system right now and have been for too long! From this experience I have learned that I may hold onto fish from this diver a little longer to see if we get a similar looking development on fish from where that diver collects.
Our process is unfortunately probably not a "best" but it gets us closer and works for us in a volume retail environment since it gives us the flexibility of individual care. I feel that a hobbyist could do a lot more with this method in terms of individual care and we could go further to learn from the public aquaria community as to how they run their QT processes.
For example in my shop our QT method starts at the source. We import our own livestock and are often able to get a heads up from the divers and/or receiving stations as to common issues that come in with the fish from their region. We can treat for this immediately upon arrival and since our fish are QT'd in their own cubicles there is no transfer to the other fish. For example, we have a collector that supplies us with wrasses that he has alerted us to commonly carrying Uronema and with the work of his in house marine biologist and veterinarian has come up with a very effective treatment and was able to pass along to us to implement right away.
Other fish might just have a history of carrying a certain disease and we can educate ourselves on that and be prepared for it when the fish come in. Otherwise, we just feed heavy and do a general deworming and parasite treatment with Prazi. TTM and Chloroquine phosphate daily. We also dose the cubicles with H202 daily. This process goes for at least 2 weeks and we then move the fish out to clean holding if they show no other signs of a need for treatment.
For example, I have a gorgeous Semilarvatus butterfly in the shop that looked great for the first week in QT. It developed a red and white "teardrop" shaped bump on its' side so we kept it in the QT cubicle. Bump stayed there for weeks. Fish ate great and acted perfectly normal. One day the bump was gone and the fish was completely clean. The next day it had a bunch of small white spots on both pectoral fins. We continued to keep the fish in the cubicle and maintained the basic above mentioned treatments. After another 2 weeks the bumps were gone. Continued treatment for an additional week and then stopped treatments. The fish has remained in the cubicle spot free and looking perfect with no treatment at all other than daily water changes. The fish has been in our care since September 19th! It honestly should have gone into clean holding by now, but we are renovating that system right now and have been for too long! From this experience I have learned that I may hold onto fish from this diver a little longer to see if we get a similar looking development on fish from where that diver collects.
Our process is unfortunately probably not a "best" but it gets us closer and works for us in a volume retail environment since it gives us the flexibility of individual care. I feel that a hobbyist could do a lot more with this method in terms of individual care and we could go further to learn from the public aquaria community as to how they run their QT processes.
Smo
Well-Known Member
I am intrigued by the bucket method. Appears to be completely scalable. A home hobbyist would just need a tub filled with tap water, a heater and power-head for temperature control. It would house today’s bucket, the bucket for tomorrow plus a small bucket for the fresh water dip (maintaining the same temperature). You would also need a container for mixing/storing fresh salt water (most of us have this already) plus another small container for mixing medication. If you used Cu instead of CP you would have to ramp it up over time between bucket changes. Best part—the buckets and pipets go in the dishwasher. No more hand sanitizing TTM tanks and all associated equipment. And the bucket kit would be much easier to store when not in use.
You would still want to maintain a HT for observation prior to final transfer to the DT.
You would still want to maintain a HT for observation prior to final transfer to the DT.
