observations of an old salt

[Sump Crab]

Been in the hobby for 15 years and I gotta spill my guts on this. So many algae filled white rock tanks out there these days. I mean picture after picture of unhealthy looking tanks. Whats up with this trend on starting a sterile dry rock tank?

Why are people so afraid of "pests"? I think the reason pests take hold and reach plague proportions is due to the lack of biodiversity found in these sterilized tanks. I mean I have vermitid snails and red planaria in my reef but they have found a balance in my ecosystem. I have to look hard just to find one flatworm and often times can't. I don't qt fish but my oldest is 12 years. I have so many unnamed critters and bristle worms yet my corals don't get eaten. I have algaes in my tank that can't compete against my Coraline. I relish the moments I discover a new critter in my tank, I certainly don't panic.

If you're new to the hobby just know that there is another way to start a reef that works. You can have a tank that is beautiful from day one. You don't have to go the dry rock route. Look at LIVErock as the single greatest investment in your reefs success.

I hope that a trend will start in the direction of farmed ocean rock. More biodiversity in reefs is needed. No longer will newbies wait for a year or longer for an established tank. No longer will the majority of tanks be a mixture of white, brown, and a handful of tiny unhappy frags.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been in the hobby about the same length as you and seen it’s progression towards where we are today where people are deathly afraid of “hitchhikers”.
I’m not sure what mega killing machines people imagine will end up in their tank but the worst I’ve had are some flatworms, a couple of pistol shrimp and a bobbit worm.

Granted, the availability of good live rock is nothing of what it was back in the day and the prices are comparatively high versus Marco rocks for example which could be contributing factors.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

You’re not wrong at all. I myself am going to include some maricultured rock in my build for biodiversity.

but there are a couple things I’d like to point out if I may. For one, it seems you’ve gotten quite lucky with hitchhikers. Are bad ones (mantis shrimp, fire worms, etc) guaranteed? No. But it’s still happening enough to consider it a risk. And for a budget conscious newbie that is a valid concern. Also, maricultured rock is far, far more expensive than an equivalent amount of marco rock. and that’s not including the cost of shipping, the cost of equipment to properly deal with the die off that happens if you can’t make it to an airport to pick it up directly from overnight.

you’re not wrong by any means with the argument for biodiversity. But as a newer reefer who has to consider cost, I’m looking at 30 or 40lbs max of Tampa bay “live” rock. And that’s going to end up being almost as much as the skimmer I need for my build. Which in and of itself is just about an entire paycheck for me.

the trend for dry rock is not only driven by a desire to not have to deal with the mantis and the like. It’s also far less expensive than maricultured rock. I will admit the majority of people who go with dry rock still rush things which leads to the algae problems. Bit that’s due to excitement and impatience stemming from wanting a slice of your own ocean in your house. Doesn’t mean dry rock is bad. It’s just a different approach.

 

[HuduVudu]

Been in the hobby for 15 years and I gotta spill my guts on this. So many algae filled white rock tanks out there these days. I mean picture after picture of unhealthy looking tanks. Whats up with this trend on starting a sterile dry rock tank?

Pretty sure 9/11 caused this. It shut down live rock collection for years and when it re-emerged it was online and you had to know about it to do it. Then just last year Walt Smith shut down. This was the nail in the coffin. If people know how easy it is to start and maintain a live rock tank they would drive collection through the roof. Unfortunately real live rock is so foreign to them that they are actively hostile to it's benefits.

Why are people so afraid of "pests"? I think the reason pests take hold and reach plague proportions is due to the lack of biodiversity found in these sterilized tanks. I mean I have vermitid snails and red planaria in my reef but they have found a balance in my ecosystem. I have to look hard just to find one flatworm and often times can't. I don't qt fish but my oldest is 12 years. I have so many unnamed critters and bristle worms yet my corals don't get eaten. I have algaes in my tank that can't compete against my Coraline. I relish the moments I discover a new critter in my tank, I certainly don't panic.

People fear what they don't understand and with the mindset of the medical industry always behind the curtain the biological way is always low on the paths to success for most people. Which I do find strange because the most successful tanks don't even come close to working this way.

My 2 cents.

 

[HuduVudu]

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been in the hobby about the same length as you and seen it’s progression towards where we are today where people are deathly afraid of “hitchhikers”.
I’m not sure what mega killing machines people imagine will end up in their tank but the worst I’ve had are some flatworms, a couple of pistol shrimp and a bobbit worm.

Maybe you missed the Mantis Shrimp they were real killers

Some people would set up separate tanks just for them because they were so beautiful.

 

[Sump Crab]

you’re not wrong by any means with the argument for biodiversity. But as a newer reefer who has to consider cost, I’m looking at 30 or 40lbs max of Tampa bay “live” rock. And that’s going to end up being almost as much as the skimmer I need for my build. Which in and of itself is just about an entire paycheck for me

Thanks for your response. Honestly I would buy true live rock over a skimmer any day. Especially considering that a skimmer isn't even needed to start a tank.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

Thanks for your response. Honestly I would buy true live rock over a skimmer any day. Especially considering that a skimmer isn't even needed to start a tank.

True, but neither is “true” live rock

 

[xxkenny90xx]

You’re not wrong at all. I myself am going to include some maricultured rock in my build for biodiversity.

but there are a couple things I’d like to point out if I may. For one, it seems you’ve gotten quite lucky with hitchhikers. Are bad ones (mantis shrimp, fire worms, etc) guaranteed? No. But it’s still happening enough to consider it a risk. And for a budget conscious newbie that is a valid concern. Also, maricultured rock is far, far more expensive than an equivalent amount of marco rock. and that’s not including the cost of shipping, the cost of equipment to properly deal with the die off that happens if you can’t make it to an airport to pick it up directly from overnight.

you’re not wrong by any means with the argument for biodiversity. But as a newer reefer who has to consider cost, I’m looking at 30 or 40lbs max of Tampa bay “live” rock. And that’s going to end up being almost as much as the skimmer I need for my build. Which in and of itself is just about an entire paycheck for me.

the trend for dry rock is not only driven by a desire to not have to deal with the mantis and the like. It’s also far less expensive than maricultured rock. I will admit the majority of people who go with dry rock still rush things which leads to the algae problems. Bit that’s due to excitement and impatience stemming from wanting a slice of your own ocean in your house. Doesn’t mean dry rock is bad. It’s just a different approach.

I can totally see the cost argument but the hitchhiker argument doesn't make sense to me. If your going for a sterile tank and quarentining fish and corals for 2.5 months then I imagine you could quarantine your live rock for a bit (or even fw dip it) and eliminate whatever you consider pests in that time. I'm with you @Jrain904 my tank is 10 yrs old and 99% live rock. The couple of pieces of dry rock I've used were only because they were too cool looking to pass up.
Honestly new hitchhikers are the most exciting part of this hobby for me

 

[Sump Crab]

but there are a couple things I’d like to point out if I may. For one, it seems you’ve gotten quite lucky with hitchhikers. Are bad ones (mantis shrimp, fire worms, etc) guaranteed? No. But it’s still happening enough to consider it a risk. bad.

15 years is a long time to be so lucky

 

[Sump Crab]

True, but neither is “true” live rock

As in the rocks themselves are not living?

 

[Trey]

I’ve started two tanks with actual live rock. They were my healthiest and easiest tanks to start, but ultimately, the invasive pests they brought with them were the reason I took them down.
i feel if I want a 5-10 year tank chock full of acros, I need as pest free of an environment as I can get. That being said, I don’t, and never have had a tank filled with acros, so this is at best an assumption, and at worst wishful thinking!

 

[BeltedCoyote]

15 years is a long time to be so lucky

I mean, I’m going to have some true live rock in my display because I’m not worried. (But that’s just me)

“never show me the odds” and all that

 

[BeltedCoyote]

As in the rocks themselves are not living?

No rocks live. I mean you don’t need maricultured rock to start a tank. You can do so with dry or LFS seeded rock. Won’t be as fast, wont be as diverse, but it is a viable, if slower option

 

[Sump Crab]

Pretty sure 9/11 caused this. It shut down live rock collection for years and when it re-emerged it was online and you had to know about it to do it.

I started after 2001. If it was better b4 then I'd like ro have seen it.

No rocks live. I mean you don’t need maricultured rock to start a tank. You can do so with dry or LFS seeded rock. Won’t be as fast, wont be as diverse, but it is a viable, if slower option

Obviously no rock is alive but what did you mean that neither is "true" liverock?

 

[HuduVudu]

I’ve started two tanks with actual live rock. They were my healthiest and easiest tanks to start, but ultimately, the invasive pests they brought with them were the reason I took them down.
i feel if I want a 5-10 year tank chock full of acros, I need as pest free of an environment as I can get. That being said, I don’t, and never have had a tank filled with acros, so this is at best an assumption, and at worst wishful thinking!

I find there to be more hitchhikers and problems on frags than I have ever found on Live Rock. Plus I don't know how many "free" corals I have gotten on live rock.

Ohhhh have to show a cool pest I found on a blue ridge. This thing would leave little white trails and the coral wouldn't come out. Finally found him one night and removed him. FWIW he came in on the coral.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

I mean maricultured rock is not necessary to start a tank. Just as a skimmer isn’t necessary.

maricultured rock is the closest we have to live rock yanked from reefs like the old days - “true” live rock in my mind

 

[HuduVudu]

I started after 2001. If it was better b4 then I'd like ro have seen it.

Way better it was crazy

 

[Thespammailaccount]

True, but neither is “true” live rock

Personally if you are new to the hobby it is far less cheaper to buy established rock that dry rock when you consider all the equipment meds dips treatments loss of coral and fish you will factor in with dry sterile rock

 

[Sump Crab]

I mean maricultured rock is not necessary to start a tank. Just as a skimmer isn’t necessary.

maricultured rock is the closest we have to live rock yanked from reefs like the old days - “true” live rock in my mind

Obviously you don't need maricultured rock to start a reef. That was the whole point of my post. Trying to bring more awareness to an alternative reefing philosophy.

I have ordered Tampa Bay rock and I can assure you that it is very "alive".

 

[xxkenny90xx]

Obviously you don't need maricultured rock to start a reef. That was the whole point of my post. Trying to bring more awareness to an alternative reefing philosophy.

I have ordered Tampa Bay rock and I can assure you that it is very "alive".

I mean maricultured rock is not necessary to start a tank. Just as a skimmer isn’t necessary.

maricultured rock is the closest we have to live rock yanked from reefs like the old days - “true” live rock in my mind

Sigh, you two are killing me