Odd works around

[Lasse]

Hi

I think that you have understand that i love works around Here is one that maybe will help people with the same type of questions. I decided to run my skimmer according to actual pH. If the pH get to high - it should run and also if it goes to low (see my build thread why) For the moment it will run when pH run lower than 8.17 and when it run higher than 8,23. And the skimmer will nut run between 8.17 and 8.23 (at the moment) For the moment you can´t log the sockets and see exactly when and for how long time the sockets are on or off, but i need that service for the moment.

How to do?

The newest P4 firmware let you run 32 dosing pumps. I configure a "virtual" pump 32 to react on my socket 14 (index 14) and "calibrate it to 1 ml/minute. activate the pumps logging and mark fill up container it up (virtual) with 30 000 ml.

Voilà - now i can see how long it has run since last "virtual empty container" (ml filled = minutes run) and when it has run (the chart for pump 32)

Sincerely lasse

 

[Scubadoo4u]

I'm sorry, I must be dumber than a box of rocks because I didn't understand what you said.

 

[Lasse]

I'm sorry, I must be dumber than a box of rocks because I didn't understand what you said.

P4 have no function that make it possible to log when different outlets are on or of. You can´t see a graph that tell you that between xx:xx an yy:yy was it on and between yy:yy and zz:zz was it of. However - the dosing pumps have this function. The dosing pumps can be run through a schedule or when a outlet is on or off. There is 32 possible dosing pumps that you can add physical to one P4. (I use 12). It means that I can create many "virtual pumps". Pumps that are active in the software but not physical present. These virtual pumps is possible to log and get a graph of showing when, how long and how much it had dosed. If I connect a "virtual dosing pump" with that socket I want to log on or off times of - the times it has dosed is equal to when the outlet was active or not. If I configure the pump to dose 1 ml/min - I can see how long the outlet was on too. Just translate ml into minutes

For the moment - I do not want my skimmer to run 24/7 - only att some different pH:s (or with other words - do not run between 8.16 and 8.23 in my case) However I want to see how well this works and how the skimmer works. This work around give me this information. I can see (afterwards) when it had run and for how long time

I hope this get it clearer.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Scubadoo4u]

P4 have no function that make it possible to log when different outlets are on or of. You can´t see a graph that tell you that between xx:xx an yy:yy was it on and between yy:yy and zz:zz was it of. However - the dosing pumps have this function. The dosing pumps can be run through a schedule or when a outlet is on or off. There is 32 possible dosing pumps that you can add physical to one P4. (I use 12). It means that I can create many "virtual pumps". Pumps that are active in the software but not physical present. These virtual pumps is possible to log and get a graph of showing when, how long and how much it had dosed. If I connect a "virtual dosing pump" with that socket I want to log on or off times of - the times it has dosed is equal to when the outlet was active or not. If I configure the pump to dose 1 ml/min - I can see how long the outlet was on too. Just translate ml into minutes

For the moment - I do not want my skimmer to run 24/7 - only att some different pH:s (or with other words - do not run between 8.16 and 8.23 in my case) However I want to see how well this works and how the skimmer works. This work around give me this information. I can see (afterwards) when it had run and for how long time

I hope this get it clearer.

Sincerely Lasse

So you're saying skimmer use has a correlation to the PH of tank?!?

 

[Lasse]

Yes - because it balance the CO2 content in the water - especially in the summer where I live (Sweden) We do not get too hot - windows and doors could be open - CO2 content indoors is more or less the same as outdoors. During winter time (closed indoors because of cold outside) it has not as huge impact. Its impact can be altered through using outdoor air into the skimmer or a CO2 scrubber to the skimmer air. The single most important factor for pH in a reef tank is the actual content of CO2 in the water.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Macca_75]

I can't see the "logging" for a dosing pump on my P3. Is it a P4 specific thing? I have firmware 6.43 on my P3

Thanks

 

[Lasse]

Yes - I´m sorry - it looks like it is a unique feature for P4. Its the same with the amount of dosing pumps - in P3 - 16 and in P4 (with the new firmware) - 32

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I'm sorry, I must be dumber than a box of rocks because I didn't understand what you said.

I understood him, and I'm not Swedish.

 

[Lasse]

Update

It looks like the logging function is not able to log (or report up to the cloud) long periods of on. I get very odd logging when the skimmer was on for hours. I did the same with my heater - there it works perfectly but the heater is on for shorter periods with paus between. I run it with "puls variable". I change the the operation mode controller to fixed pulse/pause (10 min/1 min). I´ll test that

Below my logging of the heater since yesterday

​

By the way @Vinny@GHLUSA - give the developers a hint that the logbook will give odd names for sensors (in the chart) when you use virtual probes - see below. First sensors name in the logbooks chart

​

The real name of the sensors. It looks like the software take the name for the virtual probe and put that in both of the probes (physical and virtual) in the logbooks chart

​

Sincerely Lasse

 

[ADAM]

Very Smart!

 

[tamanning]

Yes - because it balance the CO2 content in the water - especially in the summer where I live (Sweden) We do not get too hot - windows and doors could be open - CO2 content indoors is more or less the same as outdoors. During winter time (closed indoors because of cold outside) it has not as huge impact. Its impact can be altered through using outdoor air into the skimmer or a CO2 scrubber to the skimmer air. The single most important factor for pH in a reef tank is the actual content of CO2 in the water.

Sincerely Lasse

you are definitely smarter than me!! lol thanks for the info!!

 

[Lasse]

Thank you

I have now confirm that the logging works as intended if I have small pauses in between. I configured my skimmer to run (if the pH give its permission) for teen minutes and a short pause of 1 minute. I have change that into 20 minutes run/ 1 minutes stop for the moment.

you are definitely smarter than me!! lol thanks for the info!!

It is not a question of smartness - is a question of 70 years of trial and error - mostly errors

Sincerely Lasse

 

[tamanning]

Thank you

I have now confirm that the logging works as intended if I have small pauses in between. I configured my skimmer to run (if the pH give its permission) for teen minutes and a short pause of 1 minute. I have change that into 20 minutes run/ 1 minutes stop for the moment.


It is not a question of smartness - is a question of 70 years of trial and error - mostly errors

Sincerely Lasse

wisdom is not the result of schooling but a lifetime spent acquiring it

 

[Scubadoo4u]

I didn't know what he was specifically talking about and still kinda don't, p3-p4 thing, but what caught my eye was Mr lasse's mention of skimmer, ph and the relationship to co2. 4 years new on salt with kinda minimal and some corals going crazy and some going & then gone....kinda due to dumb choices.

 

[Lasse]

I didn't know what he was specifically talking about and still kinda don't, p3-p4 thing, but what caught my eye was Mr lasse's mention of skimmer, ph and the relationship to co2. 4 years new on salt with kinda minimal and some corals going crazy and some going & then gone....kinda due to dumb choices.

I do not really get it. (what you mean). Do you mean that I´m wrong with the relationship between aeration (skimmer), CO2 content water/air and pH? Or is it only uninteresting for you?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dr. Jim]

For the moment - I do not want my skimmer to run 24/7 - only att some different pH:s (or with other words - do not run between 8.16 and 8.23 in my case)

Lasse, could you explain why you only want the skimmer on when the pH is less than 8.16 or above 8.23? I'm guessing it has to do with aeration but don't see how in one case it can raise the pH and in another case lower the pH.
Thank you.

 

[Lasse]

There is for every amount of CO2 in the air a certain amount of CO2 that is dissolved in the water, it is normally named the equilibrium point. Let us say that x amount of CO2 in the air correspond to y amount in the water. In saltwater with is high content of HCO3 and/or CO3 - the amount of dissolved CO2 is critical for the pH of the water.

In my case the equilibrium point (pH) is between 8.15 and 8.20 (outside air around 400 ppm) It means that if I aerate below this point - I will take CO2 from water and up to the air (pH rise) and if I aerate over this point - CO2 will go from the air into the water (pH decline). However the effect here is probably small and I´m not sure that I can show it with graphs. I have change a little - now it is between 8.19 and 8.26 that I do not run the skimmer. I´ll will collect data and come back after a couple of days.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dr. Jim]

Very interesting. I hesitate to bother you with more questions although I have to wonder:

1) How do you determine that your equilibrium point is between precise points (8.15 and 8.2)?
2) What happens to the pH if you run the skimmer between those points? (The pH is unaffected?)

A somewhat related question:
I'm considering reducing my skimmer flow for part of the day to see if that will allow my nitrates and phosphates to rise a little. (I have a DC 0-10v pump). Would you agree that if I was going to reduce the flow for only 12 hours/day it would be best to reduce it during the day rather than during the night? (I'm thinking the "full-speed" skimmer operation would provide more oxygen when needed during the night but I'm not sure if that would add or remove CO2 from the water).

Sorry this wandered from a GHL topic.
Thanks for helping

 

[Lasse]

1) How do you determine that your equilibrium point is between precise points (8.15 and 8.2)?
2) What happens to the pH if you run the skimmer between those points? (The pH is unaffected?)

1) I do not know the exact point - therefore a span that are related to natural seawater and (un)natural CO2 concentration in outside air
2) If you aerate at the equilibrium - theoretical - nothing happens

I do not believe that a skimmer (running or not) have any huge impact on PO4 levels. P have normally no gaseous phase. However it could affect the NO3 level because the skimmer will aerate out som NH3 before it will become NO3.

best to reduce it during the day rather than during the night? (I'm thinking the "full-speed" skimmer operation would provide more oxygen when needed during the night but I'm not sure if that would add or remove CO2 from the water)

IMO - you are right - and it will remove CO2 too - if your night pH is below the equilibrium .

I have a 1-10 V dc in my skimmer too. But - GHL have no programming language for 1-10 V (yet?)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Macca_75]

1) I do not know the exact point - therefore a span that are related to natural seawater and (un)natural CO2 concentration in outside air
2) If you aerate at the equilibrium - theoretical - nothing happens

I do not believe that a skimmer (running or not) have any huge impact on PO4 levels. P have normally no gaseous phase. However it could affect the NO3 level because the skimmer will aerate out som NH3 before it will become NO3.


IMO - you are right - and it will remove CO2 too - if your night pH is below the equilibrium .

I have a 1-10 V dc in my skimmer too. But - GHL have no programming language for 1-10 V (yet?)

Sincerely Lasse

Can't you control a pump's flow (via 1-10v) based on a flow sensor's output? (ie. control pump up or down)?