Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

[hotashes]

Always good to have documentation of a big tanker doing their housekeeping, especially after many years of non disturbed sand bed. Just another example of how this method works across the various tank sizes, it’s great work.. I for sure believe this method is how best to keep a healthy thriving reef, years on.

Thanks,

A.

 

[brandon429]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2687594


how quick would our method fix his 8 gallon nano

answer, 20 minutes.


Can't enjoy his reefing for five months, is reporting updates nothing is working.

He has two challenging CUC members to work around, we do full SPS tanks here


what are the chances we can run a rip cleaning in a brand new 8 gallon cloudy nano, with organics shown in the bed cross section pic, having only a few snails and a conch?

Do full water changes really hurt like he thinks they do here? hesitation is the factor on this tank, we're opposite of hesitate in these recent pages.

we rip the tank into compliance, with the delicates out in a holding bucket of tank water. then when the 8 gal nano is cloudless, 100% water change, you acclimate the animals just like you did from the LFS when they first came home. this can be done, see prior works here on thorough cleans

take some clear water and add it back to the holding bucket before addition, to acclimate slowly...

link him here creatively so we can exchange works all by his thread which I can read. all the answers here on how to run the cleaning are on the last 5 pages or any set of pages.

lets send him a private message advising them to google (official sand rinse thread see very last page) then we'll just watch his updates there at his thread. I can see how his rip clean will work out from here, by reading his tanks history.

the intention is to reach out a rip clean a perfect candidate tank across forums...having to use a network of underground friends to get there isn't the ideal method but all blocks notwithstanding its a friendly way to garner some remote works here. to help someone, we like that.
B


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/annoying-dirty-sand-bed-issue-in-my-180.588201/#post-5972774
*******Hemmdog has a real fish loading here, and can pass a drop test having never rinsed he shows. handy for large tank management, a seemingly clean hands off bed that is aged out. Gobies apparently, have a look. nice alternative methods shown, always welcome

 

[DMG Reef]

I've been watching this thread with great interest. I'm about to face a daunting task with regards to my 5 year old reef tank. I am upgrading to a Red Sea Reefer XL 425.

I've been advised to throw away my current sand bed which has been mostly undisturbed for the 5 yrs. The issue I have with that plan is that there's a lot of life in my old sand. I bought nassarius snails when setting up the tank in 2014 and I consistently see baby nassarius snails crawling around at night to this day. Also many worms and pods. The old sand is Carribsea Hawaiian Black and I'm switching to Special Grade white sand. I had hoped to be able to rinse the old sand and use some of it in the new tank to have a salt and pepper look. Is this feasible? Can I salvage the life in the old sand?

My reef is acro-dominant with 6 fish that are almost 5 yrs. old as well. My biggest fear is starting a cycle in the new tank after transferring everything over.

The new tank arrives tomorrow and I don't feel like I have a solid plan of action for cleaning the old system and re-booting.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[brandon429]

Please take pics thank you very much for posting!

Sift the goods back out

Remove the sand and pick from it what you can. It's worth the loss of detritus to lose incidental pods, but those can be bought from algen in replenishment

They're not gone even if you replace the whole bed, recharge em. Very diverse packs avail ~~

don't forget, rocks are pre tested for detritus before big jobs, so we know where danger lurks

pull out some test rocks, swish them in a clean bucket of sw, then set them down on the bottom for two hours. go back, remove, see how much casting comes about. multiply times mega/expectation for whole tank rock, rock cleaning is as important as sand cleaning. its removing detritus and anticipating where we might forget to look for it that counts all the way.

if you put back a zero clouding, zero clouding zero detritus system in the new setup you can arrange it however you want without a cycle. use all new water as well, the live rocks are enough as long as you have the normal amounts in tow.

cleaning rocks is just as important as cleaning sand.

saltwater only for rocks...swish n clean buckets of water etc

the cycle will never stick or stall after cleaning, you cannot physically scrub filtration bac off sand grains or rock grains.

leaving clouding in the sand or rocks is the risk, the cycle follows the clouding always.

anyone using/xferring the normal amounts of established live rock has all the required surface area for the bioload the tank is adapted to with sand
this is another big tenet we reprove here which is against common acceptance

live rocks do not take on more bacteria to make up for lack of, partial cleaning of, instant removal of, boiling of, sand. Andrew above provides a fine reference example of what we mean by clean rinsing of sand, or even brand new sand pre rinsed before use. He provides the drop test...in tank and it's very clean

a stack of live rock is enough surface area for skip cycle use, even on its own ripped away from the sandbed adapted to for years... live rock is that powerful. its how we get away with doing whatever we want to the sand as long as its not something partial, leaving filth in place

 

[DMG Reef]

Thanks @brandon429. I will definitely take pics of this process and post the results. I currently have way too much live rock so I'll be able to cherry-pick the ones I want to put in the new build. I will clean them thoroughly per your instructions and then hope for a skip cycle. Thanks so much!

More to come...

 

[m0jjen]

Been spending all day rinsing sand and reintroducing it. Got out about 3/4 of my sand, rest was vaccumed or stirred so its "pretty clean". Lets see it i can get any results on my GHA. Reasoning behind doing this is that the only nutrientsource i could think off is my sand. I feed lightly, and dose a little inorganic nutrients (have/had dinos). Nothing major. 1 ppm no3 and 0.02 ppm po4. GHA is coming on with a vengence anyhow and has to be feed from something besides my feeding and dosing.

 

[brandon429]

Hey did you find works and pods in the sand, or just mud based on what you removed

Thanks for posting~ glad to hear of your nutrient dive+ reset this is not easy for large tanks at all, a big commit yep

Pods and worms reseed the new bed down from the live rocks once it's all cleaned out anyway


Katt how is yours fingers crossed +

 

[m0jjen]

Hey did you find works and pods in the sand, or just mud based on what you removed

Thanks for posting~ glad to hear of your nutrient dive+ reset this is not easy for large tanks at all, a big commit yep

Pods and worms reseed the new bed down from the live rocks once it's all cleaned out anyway


Katt how is yours fingers crossed +

If found a a lot of worms pods and what not in the rinse yes

 

[DMG Reef]

Hey @brandon429. It's been a busy week tearing down my tank and setting up the Red Sea Reefer. I have to admit that it was ridiculous to think I could save much of anything from my disgusting 5 yr. old sand bed. Yikes! So much sludge! So much fish poo. I tried rinsing a bucket of the old sand, but it became apparent that it wasn't worth the effort to reuse any of it. So I went with 80 pounds of Carib-Sea Special Grade and I like it far better than the black.

I thoroughly rinsed the new sand with tap water. I have to admit - I will never use sand again without rinsing first!! There was so much silt in it. I rinsed the old live rock in saltwater and things are looking great. I will do a video showing that the sand doesn't cloud when stirred up as soon as I get time. This was a massive project and I still have much work to do on it.

BTW, I managed to save most of my hermit crabs and a few nassarius snails but I didn't try too hard to find most of them.

I'll post pics soon. Thanks again for your assistance!

 

[brandon429]

I was wondering about you two's tank surgery, so glad to hear of successes yay

It is dangerous activity, the surgery for a multi thousand dollar system (large tanks) or a multi-hundred dollar nano, but it's also not dangerous in that we know -exactly- what it takes to NOT recycle and that's being thorough.

The danger steps in as soon as we start to under do rinsing out of fear of what bacteria can tolerate... With early trust in our bacteria, there is no danger.

A totally healthy system with no Invasion or problems whatsoever can be taken apart and rip cleaned just because it's Monday, that's why I like the method. It's prevention for one person and remediation for another


We pay a price eventually for storing up sandbed waste, even if we follow the exact recommended steps of those who already do it successfully apparently

The system of DSB keeping itself in the classic manner has a very very low consistency rate compared to rinse and clean which is highly consistent in outcome.

*** if that wasn't the case we would have a 22-page thread on reinstating dsbs on formerly bare bottom systems to make them work better by catching more waste and holding it down low until critical mass**


Large tank dsbs can run years and years before there are problems, that's why the method seems to be okay-it's only not okay when the breakpoint comes...a move, an upgrade, an unabated invasion- then it's time to scrub in and dive in/clean all at once

Alex
How's your sandbed from prior two weeks, the hand guiding how is it

 

[Alexreefer]

It is not getting worse byt better. Everyday stirring and cleaning. I hope to get the tank clean before summer so i can enjoy it!

 

[brandon429]

hey after school can you update us a new pic, we sure like tracking out the tougher jobs.

nice resolve, to stay on it too.

 

[brandon429]

Alex also more musings about your system which is requiring some follow up access/very strong invader finds a niche in the cloudless system/does occur at times

*since you instated cloudless access, now is the ideal time to consider some of the alternate ways non rinsers battle matted invaders, we're not against anything that reduces your work once basic invader feed (clouding) has been removed like you clearly demonstrated.

Those optional and additional battle options now include:
-nitrate and phosphate tuning, measure, and adjustment. Several threads show matted invaders complying under ideal N and P ratios
-bottled bac, not for cycling, but stuff like MB7 and Dr Tims sludge digesting types, harmless to try, cannot hurt, and just might work for eight bucks.
-buying competitive microbes off algagen website or similar
myriad threads show matted invaders being beaten with these approaches. the pre rinse made your tank ideal for them to be added now, after, vs before where it would have retained the waste to feed some other invader like GHA, which the microbes don't work well on.
-UV sterilization can really make an impact here. I would never own above a nano reef without one, they're that good for prevention of your issues. that however is more $$ and easily prescribed over here on my couch lol

I still think over time it will hand guide out free of change, 2 gallon siphon runs/pull it up and out is what id do, along with bluer, less white lights/ any CUC members you input are ok to try, they only work sometimes though so don't buy a reefcleaners 60 pack not needed

 

[Alexreefer]

Alex also more musings about your system which is requiring some follow up access/very strong invader finds a niche in the cloudless system/does occur at times

*since you instated cloudless access, now is the ideal time to consider some of the alternate ways non rinsers battle matted invaders, we're not against anything that reduces your work once basic invader feed (clouding) has been removed like you clearly demonstrated.

Those optional and additional battle options now include:
-nitrate and phosphate tuning, measure, and adjustment. Several threads show matted invaders complying under ideal N and P ratios
-bottled bac, not for cycling, but stuff like MB7 and Dr Tims sludge digesting types, harmless to try, cannot hurt, and just might work for eight bucks.
-buying competitive microbes off algagen website or similar
myriad threads show matted invaders being beaten with these approaches. the pre rinse made your tank ideal for them to be added now, after, vs before where it would have retained the waste to feed some other invader like GHA, which the microbes don't work well on.
-UV sterilization can really make an impact here. I would never own above a nano reef without one, they're that good for prevention of your issues. that however is more $$ and easily prescribed over here on my couch lol

I still think over time it will hand guide out free of change, 2 gallon siphon runs/pull it up and out is what id do, along with bluer, less white lights/ any CUC members you input are ok to try, they only work sometimes though so don't buy a reefcleaners 60 pack not needed

Will take pics soon. Any idea which microscope will be good for me to identify what I have?

 

[brandon429]

id just take a sample to school let the bio lab teacher help set one up/use

but if not, any of the cheap ones off amazon will work. not sure of a specific one but in the dinoflagellates thread they're getting 100x shots off 20$ scopes from amazon, toy ones

just tilt your camera phone into the objective, adjust it for angles, I think you have to pull it off slightly to get it to focus just play around it'll send a nice image

 

[Alexreefer]

Here are the pics after a 3 day blackout and siphoning daily. Looks clean but ut still comes back

 

[hotashes]

Hey @brandon429. It's been a busy week tearing down my tank and setting up the Red Sea Reefer. I have to admit that it was ridiculous to think I could save much of anything from my disgusting 5 yr. old sand bed. Yikes! So much sludge! So much fish poo. I tried rinsing a bucket of the old sand, but it became apparent that it wasn't worth the effort to reuse any of it. So I went with 80 pounds of Carib-Sea Special Grade and I like it far better than the black.

I thoroughly rinsed the new sand with tap water. I have to admit - I will never use sand again without rinsing first!! There was so much silt in it. I rinsed the old live rock in saltwater and things are looking great. I will do a video showing that the sand doesn't cloud when stirred up as soon as I get time. This was a massive project and I still have much work to do on it.

BTW, I managed to save most of my hermit crabs and a few nassarius snails but I didn't try too hard to find most of them.

I'll post pics soon. Thanks again for your assistance!

For sure I can’t wait to see some pictures, you’ve upscaled this technique for sure. Hats off to you

A.

 

[brandon429]

Alex well done on keeping it so clean we can't see it. That's perfect, you've allowed no mass. Your tank is better by the access, not worse, and the price is the water changing to keep it under control. blackout was good countermeasure agreed. since you can see the fine details of the tank you can tell its re amassing, that's notable in person but you've controlled the outbreak and shown that you have final say over how the tank expresses as a new system

the price of guiding white, reflective rock into solid purple coralline is many hand cleaning battles or a lot of luck. its an over time thing, and, with grazers matched to your invader (?) we wouldn't need more measures as that's how balances/hands off systems are earned. clean it till something cleans it for you.

I would never ever dose chemi clean don't even own it

use the current methods, or clean up crew members (a few till we see who eats and who loafs around pooping)

the cheap bottled bac additives like dr tims waste away or any other bottle bac doser designed for competition/invasion vs cycling is a cheap move with power result options, no harm to the system

if you bought a cheap pond sterilizer off amazon (see the ratings discussions, they work) for 125$ it has about a 90% chance of stopping it fully. if not, amazon helps you figure things out about keeping purchases v return. you are buying someone elses attempt when you get it lol (but I bet they ran it on a clouded wrecked system)

 

[Alexreefer]

Agreed with what you said. I will continue doing what I am and trying to settle this down before my long vacation which is in about a month and a half. Will post some more in a bit

Alex well done on keeping it so clean we can't see it. That's perfect, you've allowed no mass. Your tank is better by the access, not worse, and the price is the water changing to keep it under control. blackout was good countermeasure agreed. since you can see the fine details of the tank you can tell its re amassing, that's notable in person but you've controlled the outbreak and shown that you have final say over how the tank expresses as a new system

the price of guiding white, reflective rock into solid purple coralline is many hand cleaning battles or a lot of luck. its an over time thing, and, with grazers matched to your invader (?) we wouldn't need more measures as that's how balances/hands off systems are earned. clean it till something cleans it for you.

I would never ever dose chemi clean don't even own it

use the current methods, or clean up crew members (a few till we see who eats and who loafs around pooping)

the cheap bottled bac additives like dr tims waste away or any other bottle bac doser designed for competition/invasion vs cycling is a cheap move with power result options, no harm to the system

if you bought a cheap pond sterilizer off amazon (see the ratings discussions, they work) for 125$ it has about a 90% chance of stopping it fully. if not, amazon helps you figure things out about keeping purchases v return. you are buying someone elses attempt when you get it lol (but I bet they ran it on a clouded wrecked system)[/QUOTE

 

[Alexreefer]

Here is what i did yesterday.

I cleaned out my sump completely and siphoned out all the detritus in the sump and in the skimmer. Pulled the skimmer and gave it an hour of a vinegar bath. Scraped whatever bad was growning off the walls and refilled about 15 to 20 gals of sw. In the end it was much cleaner. I think this will help as well