Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

[brandon429]

Absolutely and thanks for posting M
that w be great documentation for us. It used to be that hands off was the only acceptable mode and we want to catalog all nonstandard sandbed practices, preps cleanings and moves

Even pre rinsing used to be discouraged so it's great to feature any and all rinse noncompliance here lol

 

[jwarren220]

I didn't read this entire thread, but I did post a video about rinsing sand recently. Would you like me to link it in this thread?

I for one would!

 

[melev]

Here's the video.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I have always rinsed new sand, when did people stop doing that? I went bare bottom on my current tank. When I moved 300 miles 10 months ago my fish went into trash cans with tank water. My rocks went into trash cans with tank water. My corals went into large plastic storage containers with tank water. I used no air stones on any of it, they were in the containers for 4 days. I did lose some corals but that was because the guy helping me dropped a container and spilled the entire contents on the hot asphalt. Even my peppermint shrimp survived. When I took and put everything in the tank after the move including the old tank water there was no cycle, there was nothing in the way of smell from any decay. Many of the corals that I thought had died came back. One thing I have learned with oversized skimmer, bare bottom and lots of flow you can get the water to clean. You can tear a tank down clean the sand put it all back together and not have a cycle as long as you don't put to much food into the water right away. When I did have sand what I liked to do was use a siphon sand cleaner to do a water change and then use an external filter to filter the water while I stirred the sand up. Now I don't have to bother but I also can't keep fish that prefer a sand bed.

 

[Donaldf973]

So dealing with dinos i figured this would be a good time to freshwater dip and clean my tank. When i ripped the sand it smelled like fresh ocean water and foamed just like it. 4 gallon nano 1 inch bed 6 months old took me about 30 minutes total to clean it to where everythibg settled within 15-20 minutes

 

[john.m.cole3]

Another sand rinse success story.

This tank is a 20 gallon FOWLR that has been suffering from a wicked green cloud in the tank. when viewing, not a single fish could be seen. tank has been up and running 2 months according to the owner. 5 fish, 20 lbs live rock, hang on back filter rated for a 55 with carbon filters. Basic setup.

Initially the owner wanted to do a 100% WC. We removed the rock into a bucket of clean saltwater, drained enough water to be able to actually see the fish and catch them, then removed and discarded the remaining water. I suggested we rinse the sand and dunk the rocks in clean SW until...clean! The owner was on the fence as most are when it comes to rinsing sand. He asked the usual, "will this kill my bac in the sand? will it cause a new cycle?" I told him the majority of bac is in the rock and that there sand would lose some but not all.

BTW, everything I have learned on this topic is from Mr. Brandon429. He deserves all the street cred for being a true renegade in this community set forth by the seasoned vets. Moving forward.

No garden hose available. We took the 20 long right into the bath tub, first putting towels down so that the edge of the tank didn't support all of the weight. the water wouldn't run directly into the tank so I had the owner hold a dust pan to make a water slide. we also used 2 siphon lines to siphon the silt out of the water column as we both hand stirred the substrate. It took 30 minutes to get prob 95% of silt removed. Owner was happy with his drop test (where you take a handful of sand from the bottom, drop it at the water line and observe no cloud). Then we set it back up.

we were not gentle or cautious when returning 15 gallons of fresh SW to the tank. We dumped it in! Cloud cleared for the most part instantly. SUCCESS!!!

We set up 3 buckets of clean SW to wash the rocks. 4-5 dunks per bucket to removal all detritus, then returned to tank. It took 1 hr in total. Now the owner can reset the tank anytime things go astray. I hope this can help provide yet another example of how effective @brandon429 guidance can be.

Hats off to the owner for taking the leap and becoming a "rinser"!

 

[john.m.cole3]

 

[West Mariculture]

I used to wash and grade about 70 tons of aragonite per year using a vibrating orbital grader. That's how to get lots of clean sand.

 

[john.m.cole3]

I used to wash and grade about 70 tons of aragonite per year using a vibrating orbital grader. That's how to get lots of clean sand.

big boy rinsing right there!

 

[brandon429]

John and crew this is adding valuable information to our sandbed rinse and access thread, you bunch of skip cyclers



Donald that's excellent for our nano reef crew to see, with four gallons you simply control all the biology in the tank all at once. The smaller the tank the more immune you can become to any invader due to 100% action available

In TW's giant dinos thread those giant tanks are having to not access things 100%, in nearly every case the sandbed which is a huge repository for Dino cells to holdover during treatment simply has to be left in place due to practicality...a huge portion of them would be helped by this kind of bed access and address but it's impractical for many large tanks, just a comparison between the invasion/sustain rates among nanos vs large tanks where water dosing is the only action

Bruce~ that's solid documentation too about your skip cycle even with a drop incident...it's rare for people to recover without cycles and loss but only because we have been taught in prior reads that any changes to the tank causes a cycle...when in fact it's changes that redistribute detritus that causes one or the event of losing larger animals within the tank we can't access to get them out. Waste, hardware and animals accounted for you can flip a reef like a pancake and simply have no cycle. One can bring items home from a pet store and skip cycle just the same we want the readers to know in case this kind of timing is required or just handy.

 

[brandon429]

Skip cycle full bed changeout from Nr.com well done
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/376600-picture-of-my-tanks-new-sand-bed/#entry5391929


ten days later after the chg
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/376834-pic-of-tank-afterv10days-of-replacing-sandbed/

 

[brandon429]

This shows my pico reef and disassembly cleaning. The corals and live rock sit in the cold air 25 mins as I tap rinse the sand over and over

Last rinse is saltwater

Then reassembly


the sand rinse technique from this thread is why my tank has lasted this long with no cyano or diatom issues.


This small reef is immune to any invader in reefing through a reproducible set of actions and is treated harsher on a Thursday night than an average reef will see at worst, it's tough trained.

The rasping method beats all algae
Forcing the tank free of organics makes indefinite biological lifespan, two most important control variables for this system above


Intended to be a demonstration of cycling control considering the deepest possible cleaning action done all at once in a coral packed system with zero dilution safety net.

Any normal sized tank attempting the maneuver (sandbed rinsing or replacing all at once) will have no problem if order of ops is kept

 

[john.m.cole3]

I'm still in awe about leaving the corals on the counter. You must keep your house around 80 degrees...

 

[brandon429]

They get so cold this was chill cold upon rehydration, it's truly temp shock training as well

Resistance training

 

[john.m.cole3]

I see what you did there!, lol

 

[Jcon_343]

Brandon,

I have finished my move! Sorry I didn't take more pics I was in a rush but it was successful! I have skipped the cycle, moved a tank and added a rinsed NEW sandbed.

1. Pulled livestock and non attached coral. Placed in 5gal buck with tank water for move

2. Removed more water into 20gal bin, pulled rocks

3. Drained the rest of the tank.

4. Loaded everything up.

5. Arrived at new location. Set up temporary housing. Air stone in bucket and heater, heater and power head in 20gal bin for rock.

6. Rinsed new sand.

7. Set up tank, added equipment, acclimated livestock.

First pic is prior to move.

 

[brandon429]

Thank you so much for positing that, big investment protected! That's so helpful to be part of our tank move reference list thanks tons

 

[brandon429]

Bump for 2017:
A sandbed that is started and maintained correctly will not have enduring invasions.

You can mix the sandbed, flip it, transfer it, change it out for dry or live new sand, all with no recycle. Each example of that is in this thread.

A hands off ran sandbed may or may not have problems... variation occurs from the keeper allowing natural events to play out. Those with successful sandbeds may leave them untouched, this thread is about tank access, guaranteed cycle control, and prevention as an option of tank care.


My sandbed once ran nine years before changeout, and was clean at the time of the swap, not stored up--it was a joy for nine years to watch the biology unfold. I swapped for crisper looking sand and because nine yr old sand is high surface area exposed to phosphate which was easy to swap out as maintenance in my old reef tank, the biology rebounds.

Tanks with consistent sandbed issues share two or three common care facets repeating among problem tanks> the sandbed drop test reviewed here identifies one of the shared aspects of misbehaving reef aquarium sandbeds...problem tanks always cloud in the test.

The pre care on the bed makes the difference/ not the outcome of a single reactive partial cleaning event which usually just shuffles detritus and silt. Being free from sandbed issues is simply about taking command right from the start, we show. Many forego the sandbed and it's possible storage provision.

All enduring invasions have one thing in common: a hands off sandbed approach centered around core assumptions:
-the bacteria in the bed cannot take rinsing or disturbance or air exposure without dying (rinse/disturb/air exposure=a cleaning event)
-the sandbed is performing a nitrate reducing benefit, not a contributing one (dredge test the lower sandbed areas for excess waste compared to top column)
-the microfauna in the sandbed are not expendable and are the core of the control system.


We applied the opposite of those assumptions in this thread.

Also detailed is how external DSB's are awesome and demonstrably useful, how sandbeds that bear the full waste generations from animals in the display tank are behind nearly every problem sandbed thread on the internet and will show you the stored waste in two easy tests: siphoning out a sample of the lower area of bed for N and P testing, and by applying the drop test and uploading a video of it here.

Being dynamic with sandbed biology allows the aquarist to control the life forms in the tank by doing work and arranging the tank to allow for work.

 

[john.m.cole3]

Hey Brandon, hope all is well. Question: I'm firing up that 40 gal frag system right now. I have all of my rock cycling in buckets in the garage for 4 or 5 months now. I want to start the tank without sand, make sure it's cycled, then add some old sand in. My concern is my old sand sat in buckets in the garage without lids and has dried out. Do you think I should re-rinse it? Also, how much do you think I can add at one time without creating a mini cycle? I know the 2nd wues should be in your live rock=dead shrimp cycling thread, but figured you be ok with me dropping it here.

 

[brandon429]

Hi J!

the sand was already pretty clean based on good care habits most likely but if it was mine to reuse I would probably would use a bunch of peroxide as a soak beforehand to reduce any organics stuck to the grains.
bleach works too but I like peroxide for the lower biotoxicity and easier rinse