Oh boy, help.

Oh i see. Im sorry i miss read the 2nd part to the OP. So you've made like an emergency qt setup? Or is this a permanent qt setup?
Well, not really either. I don't keep it running all of the time, but I don't do it last minute either. About a week before I know I'll need it I get it set up and get it ready. Since I'm using tank water the bacteria is already strong and propagates to the filter floss quickly. Then I add small amounts of ammonia to keep my biological filtration going until the fish are in there.
 
I do measure salinity of shipping bag. Then i put the fish with shipping bag water in a container or bucket and then drip acclimate qt water in the container for about an hour. That will eliminate any osmotic shock. After that just drop the fish in the tank. Monitor the fish for 3 months. Done.
That's what I did with the first one. Here's why that can sometimes be a problem. In shipping the ammonia levels can get very high. The only thing that really saves the fish from dying in that condition is that the ph also drops. Lower ph decreases the toxicity of ammonia, keeping it from killing the fish. When you drip acclimate you are raising the ph pretty rapidly by increasing the oxygenation of the water. This causes the still present ammonia to increase in toxicity, which is very dangerous to the fish.
 
Ok, I gave you some of my references on QT tanks. I've done some reading, and I've never heard that you are suppose to lower tank salinity to match bagged fish water and then do water changes to raise the salinity. Unless this is an "emergency" QT where you are in fact treating a disease that needs to be treated immediately?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2195588

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/quarantining-marine-fish-made-simple

http://www.fishlore.com/QuarantineTankSetup.htm

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/
 
Both qt methods work. Both have advantages and disadvantages. I don't think it is likely the cause of the fish deaths in this case. How did you disinfect the tank in between fish though?

@Humblefish Do you know about ERD transmission, symptoms and treatment?
 
That's what I did with the first one. Here's why that can sometimes be a problem. In shipping the ammonia levels can get very high. The only thing that really saves the fish from dying in that condition is that the ph also drops. Lower ph decreases the toxicity of ammonia, keeping it from killing the fish. When you drip acclimate you are raising the ph pretty rapidly by increasing the oxygenation of the water. This causes the still present ammonia to increase in toxicity, which is very dangerous to the fish.
Here is a reference link on fish acclimating

http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=157

If you are worried about the amount of ammonia in the bag with the fish, do a 30% water change on the bagged water prior to beginning your drip acclimation. I'm just explaining how I acclimate my fish, not how I immediately rush fish into emergency quarantine followed by treatments of medications. But then again, all my fish have been overnighted at a timely fashion.
 
Here is a reference link on fish acclimating

http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=157

If you are worried about the amount of ammonia in the bag with the fish, do a 30% water change on the bagged water prior to beginning your drip acclimation. I'm just explaining how I acclimate my fish, not how I immediately rush fish into emergency quarantine followed by treatments of medications. But then again, all my fish have been overnighted at a timely fashion.
Yea the drip can be an issue if fish are more than 24 hrs in a bag or if you have multiple inverts in one bag and there where some casualties. Matching just allows you to get them out of bad water almost immediately and worry about acclimation at a slower pace.
 
Both qt methods work. Both have advantages and disadvantages. I don't think it is likely the cause of the fish deaths in this case. How did you disinfect the tank in between fish though?

@Humblefish Do you know about ERD transmission, symptoms and treatment?
Between fish I take the tanks to the basement, scrub all of the components with detergent, rinse thoroughly, spray everything with a 10% bleach solution, leave sit for 24 hours, then rinse very thoroughly, and then leave to dry and outgas for at least a week. Before I use any of it I rinse again very thoroughly and then manually dry it all before setting up.
 
OP, I agree your acclimation procedure is sound.

I do the same. On shipped fish, I use a 25g needle and syringe to puncture the bag for a sample and tape over it, float bags in qt, adjust salinity and plop the fish in quarantine.

So was the symptoms the same on all the fish, red spot on mouth leading to tissue sloughing off? Seems like I've seen a couple clownfish posted that have had the same issue.. @melypr1985 I think you may have responded to a couple recently?

It would be interesting to identify if this is indeed what you suspect, what I read seems to talk about food fish aquaculture... Would hate another bug to start becoming a more common issue...

Any other symptoms? Eating? Hiding, etc? Did you sterilize quarantine between each fish?

Sorry about your losses, hope you it goes better next time.
 
OP, I agree your acclimation procedure is sound.

I do the same. On shipped fish, I use a 25g needle and syringe to puncture the bag for a sample and tape over it, float bags in qt, adjust salinity and plop the fish in quarantine.

So was the symptoms the same on all the fish, red spot on mouth leading to tissue sloughing off? Seems like I've seen a couple clownfish posted that have had the same issue.. @melypr1985 I think you may have responded to a couple recently?

It would be interesting to identify if this is indeed what you suspect, what I read seems to talk about food fish aquaculture... Would hate another bug to start becoming a more common issue...

Any other symptoms? Eating? Hiding, etc? Did you sterilize quarantine between each fish?

Sorry about your losses, hope you it goes better next time.
No, the red mouth was only with the last one. It did hide, but I didn't think anything of it because it was brand new and naturally stressed. Plus, from what I've read of Marine Betta's, lots of rock to hide in is their natural inclination. My reading says that red mouth is usually a product of fish farming situations with poor water quality. I'm hoping that's what saves me, since I have decent water quality and am only medium stocked at most. Maybe the disease won't propagate. It's treatable, from what I read, but this progressed so fast I don't know how treatment would've been possible.
 
And, unfortunately, if you remember from the OP, I didn't quarantine this one. That's why I'm freaking out so bad. Since two had already died, I began to doubt my procedures, for marine Betta's anyway. I thought some combination of my procedures wasn't conducive to their ability to thrive, so I decided to skip quarantine and go directly to dt. And here we are :(
 
Yeah, my reading seemed to indicate stress and poor water quality as a major factor

Hopefully, it is not able to linger in the system, whatever it was.

Did you try and look in the mouth? Did it get the pot belly appearance, fluid filled belly?
 
Yeah, my reading seemed to indicate stress and poor water quality as a major factor

Hopefully, it is not able to linger in the system, whatever it was.

Did you try and look in the mouth? Did it get the pot belly appearance, fluid filled belly?
No, it still had sleek lines, no pot belly.

45f079cf1ea65d1132011ae8403a94cf.jpg


4a4f76b5652fe277eaf768abd2987d91.jpg


acdafaf85ca40c95bb8ee26a43140e48.jpg


ff40070b4ddb4091cd36b05d395c7747.jpg
 
I set my qt salinity the same way alex. Match the shipping salinity and over a week I will increase the salinity to match my DT. This also gives the fish time to adjust and hopefully start eating before I add prazipro.
 
Hey Alex did this fall off (black arrown) can't tell for sure but maybe a fluke?

The tiny white spots between the yellow lines, paper towel lint or ? Looks a little velvety, but I can't tell in the pics still in the tank... If it was me, I would have prazipro or general cure, acriflavine, and copper or CP on hand just in case the display breaks with flukes or velvet.. I would also keep a close eye for hiding, swimming in powerheads, decreased feeding response, etc.

Maybe @Humblefish could tell you some antibiotics that would be good to have on hand, if other fish get a red mouth. Although the images I Googled , of the disease you mentioned, the fish had a bright red mouth even after out of water , I don't really see a potbelly appearance either.
a4cfb8d45ce375012fb2e1d1efb61544.jpg
 
Hey Alex did this fall off (black arrown) can't tell for sure but maybe a fluke?

The tiny white spots between the yellow lines, paper towel lint or ? Looks a little velvety, but I can't tell in the pics still in the tank... If it was me, I would have prazipro or general cure, acriflavine, and copper or CP on hand just in case the display breaks with flukes or velvet.. I would also keep a close eye for hiding, swimming in powerheads, decreased feeding response, etc.

Maybe @Humblefish could tell you some antibiotics that would be good to have on hand, if other fish get a red mouth. Although the images I Googled , of the disease you mentioned, the fish had a bright red mouth even after out of water , I don't really see a potbelly appearance either.
a4cfb8d45ce375012fb2e1d1efb61544.jpg
I'm not sure what your arrows are pointing at, but I didn't notice anything in those areas.

The black part lying on the paper towel is part of its mouth.

I settled on red mouth because the mouth was all red, before the skin fell of that is.

Searching "marine fish red mouth skin falling off" brought me to ETM.
 
I'm 99% that the "whatever" it died from is Enteric Redmouth Disease.

I believe this is primarily a bacterial coldwater disease (occurs predominately at water temperatures of 16C and below), so most tropical fish are not at risk. However, there are other strains of Flavobacterium (all gram negative genus) which can cause similar symptoms. Do you have a UV? Zapping the free floating bacteria would be your best defense right now in a DT. Also, food soaking vitamin supplements or even Kanaplex (using Focus as the binder) would be a wise move to build up their immune system.

My apologies. I wasn't telling him his method was wrong. Can someone send me a reference link to this method so i can better quarantine my fish?

Are you looking for something like this? https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-acclimate.192300/
 
So was the symptoms the same on all the fish, red spot on mouth leading to tissue sloughing off? Seems like I've seen a couple clownfish posted that have had the same issue.. @melypr1985 I think you may have responded to a couple recently?

No this isn't the same as the clownfish. Sorry to be so late to the conversation!
 

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