Okay, what's my cycle doing?

[SallyWho]

I'm currently trying to cycle a fish QT. I set it up on 6/24 and have been dosing Stability per bottle instructions. I added ammonia to 2ppm and waiting for it to come down (as indicated by the Seachem alert badge, when I didn't have time to actually test). I did the "add ammonia and see if it disappears in 24hrs" thing...twice, actually, because something came up the first time and I didn't get to check to see how fast the ammonia disappeared. So now, here's where I stand. I know for a fact that 2ppm ammonia can be metabolized away in ~24hrs, but my nitrates and nitrites are sky high. This morning, Rea Sea test kits told me that nitrites were 1 (actually a bit darker, but that's the highest level) and nitrates were 50. I did a 50% water change to try to bring them down. Waited a few hours. Retested. Nope. Still nitrites of 1 and nitrates of 50. Just to be sure, I pulled out some cheapo API test strips, and it showed nitrites of 3 and nitrates of 80. Whichever method I trust, I feel like the values are too high. I haven't added any ammonia for about 5 days, but since I haven't been testing like I should and trusting on the ammonia alert badge to tell me about where my ammonia lies, I have no idea how long my nitrites and nitrates have been so high. So do I do another water change tomorrow and keep doing them until at least the nitrites are zero? Do I keep dosing Stability, and wait for the nitrites to come down on their own? Is this just a normal part of the cycle? Thanks, guys!

 

[Brew12]

I'm currently trying to cycle a fish QT. I set it up on 6/24 and have been dosing Stability per bottle instructions. I added ammonia to 2ppm and waiting for it to come down (as indicated by the Seachem alert badge, when I didn't have time to actually test). I did the "add ammonia and see if it disappears in 24hrs" thing...twice, actually, because something came up the first time and I didn't get to check to see how fast the ammonia disappeared. So now, here's where I stand. I know for a fact that 2ppm ammonia can be metabolized away in ~24hrs, but my nitrates and nitrites are sky high. This morning, Rea Sea test kits told me that nitrites were 1 (actually a bit darker, but that's the highest level) and nitrates were 50. I did a 50% water change to try to bring them down. Waited a few hours. Retested. Nope. Still nitrites of 1 and nitrates of 50. Just to be sure, I pulled out some cheapo API test strips, and it showed nitrites of 3 and nitrates of 80. Whichever method I trust, I feel like the values are too high. I haven't added any ammonia for about 5 days, but since I haven't been testing like I should and trusting on the ammonia alert badge to tell me about where my ammonia lies, I have no idea how long my nitrites and nitrates have been so high. So do I do another water change tomorrow and keep doing them until at least the nitrites are zero? Do I keep dosing Stability, and wait for the nitrites to come down on their own? Is this just a normal part of the cycle? Thanks, guys!

I think you have 2 issues. First, the bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate don't seem to do as well when bottled so seeing nitrites isn't too abnormal. I feel like you could call the QT cycled at this point.

The 2nd issue of high nitrates is likely testing error. Nitrate test kits work by converting nitrate to nitrite and reading them (I assume the strips work the same way). If you have even a little nitrite in your water it will cause your nitrates to read much higher than they actually are.

 

[brandon429]

Because you met the submersion time and the feed/booster angle from both bottle bac and ammonia, you are cycled.


The reason your tests don't show it, is because you are testing waste water, and in the microbiology of cycling thread it says where accessible to change all the water, and go, after thirty days submersion.

If you must retest to see results, you re test only ammonia for reasons listed in our thread. Nitrate has no factor in a cycle decision.

Where you can't drain and fill, you base things solely on ammonia.

That's why that thread is unique among cycle threads/quick diagnostics

Qt is usually less surface area than a standard tank, it's not required to digest test to full 2ppm. Any movement at all, using salifert or accurate testing, is cycled once the submersion times are passed. Full 2ppm not required at all, nor is it required to be accurately measured to be occurring.

Unless you used antibiotics here, youre cycled. Whether you used enough surface area can be ascertained as well

 

[SallyWho]

I think you have 2 issues. First, the bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate don't seem to do as well when bottled so seeing nitrites isn't too abnormal. I feel like you could call the QT cycled at this point.

The 2nd issue of high nitrates is likely testing error. Nitrate test kits work by converting nitrate to nitrite and reading them (I assume the strips work the same way). If you have even a little nitrite in your water it will cause your nitrates to read much higher than they actually are.

So my nitrates are probably falsely high- which makes me feel better- but do I need to worry about such high nitrites? Another water change, more time/Stability, or just call it good and go pick up my first fish?

Because you met the submersion time and the feed/booster angle from both bottle bac and ammonia, you are cycled.


The reason your tests don't show it, is because you are testing waste water, and in the microbiology of cycling thread it says where accessible to change all the water, and go, after thirty days submersion.

If you must retest to see results, you re test only ammonia for reasons listed in our thread. Nitrate has no factor in a cycle decision.

Where you can't drain and fill, you base things solely on ammonia.

That's why that thread is unique among cycle threads/quick diagnostics

Qt is usually less surface area than a standard tank, it's not required to digest test to full 2ppm. Any movement at all, using salifert or accurate testing, is cycled once the submersion times are passed. Full 2ppm not required at all, nor is it required to be accurately measured to be occurring.

Unless you used antibiotics here, youre cycled. Whether you used enough surface area can be ascertained as well

That's some cool science there- I'll go find and check out that micro thread. I haven't used any antibiotics yet, and I did seed this QT with some ceramic media from my other QT tank with inverts in it, so there should have been a decent start on the cycle just from that. So if ammonia is zero and nitrates don't matter so much, what are your thoughts on the high nitrites?

Thanks for your advice, guys!

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/


Nitrite has no bearing for us at all

*nitrite compliance was mentioned above as being variable based on conditions and nutrient settings in the tank and I agree that’s likely here, we just skip the trite altogether in my thread to reduce any distractions that can misread on a test, we focus on ammonia because failure there can kill things in a new cycling tank. Since ammonia generates the losses in a failed cycle attempt we like to work only with that alone. Freshwater cyclers sure might need to test for nitrite, and don’t pre treat the water with anything before you do so the test has a chance at reading correctly

As the years build, the cycling threads really get big but some summaries for your thread tied to that one:

-we routinely cycle tanks without any testing at all based on submersion times and boosters used or not. These are universal times across earth; the only thing that impedes completion is extremes in temp, meds or drying time. From that rule alone, testing becomes optional, because submersion time is the running rule. High quality and accurate parameter testing / old school big 3 is handy for speed cycling where a full dry tank must be made ready in two weeks, that’s the fastest possible time we can substrate cycle a given system if there’s a production rush deadline or just a desire to speed up legit cycling.

-testing has many misread options, I’ve linked more than ten examples where testers said someone was stalled out, but they weren’t. Even though we focus only on ammonia testing to stamp a cycle ready, even ammonia can misread (myriad examples linked and found in searches) so no tester will supersede submersion time rules, although we can create conditions to make most reef tests for ammonia actually work for us (not requiring a ‘zero’ read, but looking for any down movement at all within 24 hours after submersion times have been met/cycled)

-it is accurate to use the old school model of big 3 cycling/testing, it’s true ammonia and nitrite should be zero and nitrate should register some when a cycle is complete. The reason I made a thread breaking those rules is in response to MASS testing variation reported by reefers, on items that don’t have a variation time, something had to clean this mess up. Most reefers have a hard time knowing what to believe, their tester reading green/slight yellow, or nine solid bioindicators clearly displaying they have no ammonia though the tester seems to barely indicate they do. The use of the popular additive Prime, common for QT tanks, directly adulterates nitrite testing, linked. Nitrate, though it -always- is produced when ammonia drops after submersion times, may or may not be detected by us so we kick that out altogether, nitrate is for algae tuning whether our kits detect any to prove that doesn’t matter. 3% of cyclers import or actually farm denitrifying bacteria alongside nitrifers; they’ll eat up nitrate, and show zero, making us think a cycle is stalled but they do not ever stall. More ways of mistesting beyond those are linked as well, ammo is testing is where it’s at, and even that takes a back seat to submersion time