opening your own LFS?

[Reeceblse]

has anyone here ever thought about opening a LFS? The closest one to me is about an hour and a half away. That store is seriously lacking in the care department. After taking a look at their livestock, I decided that I could not buy from them due to the fact that everything looked sickly. The next closest is around 4 hours away! My question here is, what does it take to actually open/run a fish store? Can it be profitable? And finally, how do you market something like that to grow the interest in the area?

 

[ndrwater]

This could also be called "How to turn a big pile of Money into a very small one"
Having been around the hobby for what seems like forever, I can say that all LFS owners are hobbiests 1st and business owners second. If they aren't, they don't last.
LFS are not a place to make tons of money. Most owners scrape by. The issue nowadays is that what what once was the bread and butter of the LFS, dry goods, now can be purchased oftentimes cheaper on line.
Not to dissuade you, but... Livestock is an even tougher sell. You have to pick/source good fish and inverts and be able to house them until they sell. More often than not, people want the cheapest fish/coral they can find and have little loyalty to whatever store is closest.
It's a tough business. Most successful stores supplement their actual sales with service contracts and installs. Unless you have the knowledge and wherewithall to suffer through that, I would suggest sitting on that nest egg for a bit longer.
If... You are determined, talk to whatever store owner you trust and see what his/her take might be.

 

[Reeceblse]

This could also be called "How to turn a big pile of Money into a very small one"
Having been around the hobby for what seems like forever, I can say that all LFS owners are hobbiests 1st and business owners second. If they aren't, they don't last.
LFS are not a place to make tons of money. Most owners scrape by. The issue nowadays is that what what once was the bread and butter of the LFS, dry goods, now can be purchased oftentimes cheaper on line.
Not to dissuade you, but... Livestock is an even tougher sell. You have to pick/source good fish and inverts and be an to house them until they sell. More often than not, people want the cheapest fish/coral they can find and have little loyalty to whatever store is closest.
It's a tough business. Most successful stores supplement their actual sales with service contracts and installs. Unless you have the knowledge and wherewithall to suffer through that, I would suggest sitting on that nest egg for a bit longer.
If... You are determined, talk to whatever store owner you trust and see what his/her take might be.

I am most certainly not determined. It was a thought since there aren't any in the area. But you mentioning the online presence, I can see how dry goods are simply not profitable. This leaves fish and coral only. Though, there is plenty of an online presence to drive that market away from a brick and mortar store as well..

 

[ndrwater]

A good LFS can be hard to find. There are many, but... Also many not so good ones. To me a good LFS is not only a place to buy drygoods, fish and inverts, but also a place to go for 1st hand knowledge. One of my LFS owners definitely isn't in it for the money, but he has a very loyal following because he has been around the block more than a dozen times. He answers all questions from newbies and old salts alike. His proven long haul track record speaks volumes. His store is also a place where many a seasoned reefer go to chat with others of the same ilk. It's more than just a LFS...
It would be difficult, but not impossible, to start something like that today. To many other options with the internet..
If I were retired, had more money than I knew what to do with, I might consider it. For now, I am just very choosy as to where I spend my money. I think most average reefers/Fishkeepers are similar if not the same..

 

[count krunk]

If you want to try your hand. try setting up a small frag system and see how that goes. many of the successful ones grow out their own stuff. Some newer popular ones are aquaculture only

 

[ndrwater]

If you want to try your hand. try setting up a small frag system and see how that goes. many of the successful ones grow out their own stuff. Some newer popular ones are aquaculture only

This... Is not a bad idea...

 

[ZoWhat]

Use the search function within the forum.... lots of posts with LOTS of opinions.

My opinion has changed recently.

I'm 53 and never bought anything LIVE online....but after experiencing @CherryCorals Live Event, there were prices even with shipping costs that NONE of my 5 area LFS coral shops within a 30min drive could have touched.

All LFS stores would have been $40-$50 even on sales that @CherryCorals was selling at $20.

No doubt about it, online sales is the future of this hobby. Brick n mortor stores paying rent is old school and are dying store-by-store every year

The only pet stores that are surviving are the ones selling $80 bags of dog food. Eventually they will go out of biz when the $80 dog food can be delivered for a total of $59 within 3 days of ordering it.

Start up costs for a LFS is prob $30k to $50k minimum and I wouldnt want to risk my money nor a biz loan debt in a dying biz model


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[Ocean Lotion]

It will ruin your hobby.

 

[cmcoker]

Use the search function within the forum.... lots of posts with LOTS of opinions.

My opinion has changed recently.

I'm 53 and never bought anything LIVE online....but after experiencing @CherryCorals Live Event, there were prices even with shipping costs that NONE of my 5 area LFS coral shops within a 30min drive could have touched.

All LFS stores would have been $40-$50 even on sales that @CherryCorals was selling at $20.

No doubt about it, online sales is the future of this hobby. Brick n mortor stores paying rent is old school and are dying store-by-store every year

The only pet stores that are surviving are the ones selling $80 bags of dog food. Eventually they will go out of biz when the $80 dog food can be delivered for a total of $59 within 3 days of ordering it.

Start up costs for a LFS is prob $30k to $50k minimum and I wouldnt want to risk my money nor a biz loan debt in a dying biz model


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Chewy.com, may not take it from 80 to 59, but autoship gives a 5-15% discount and expedited 1 to 2 day shipping

 

[ZoWhat]

Can I sign up for DRONE delivery?

 

[Dennis McGrath]

Right now, I pity anyone with a brick-and-mortar store. People are migrating more and more to online purchasing, and you can see it in places like Toys-R-Us (gone), Sears (not long for this world), that were around and successful for many years, but failed to adapt to a changing online world. People now want to see everything on the screen in front of them, click a button, and wait for the man in the brown outfit to satisfy their purchasing needs. Having seen what has changed in the retail world in just 15 years, I can't imagine opening something like a LFS today, to have a possibly successful first few years, only to find that everyone has migrated to solely purchasing online.

 

[squampton]

I think it depends largely what country one is in. I am in Canada and there are some places selling corals online, but not a whole lot selling fish, so LFS is primary place to go for fish and live stock, plus shipping isn't cheap, why do I want to order a fish from back east and pay $30-$40 in shipping? I can't exactly buy hundreds of dollars of fish at once to get free shipping, so LFS is the best place.

My local saltwater store is also one of the largest online sellers of dry goods, and tends to have the lowest prices or close to it for Canada, so I am sure that helps them offset the physical store, they are also a wholesaler of dry goods and distributor so that helps them as well, they are not your usual local fish store, but they have adapted to the changes and seem to do well. Helps they are the only viable place in a metro area of 2 million for marine fish, and they do ship but the old fashioned way, look at a pdf list of stock, call in and arrange an order.


There are a couple of okay stores in the area who do mostly freshwater with a bit of salt, but several have closed down over the years, but the existing ones seem to do okay, but again who is going to spend 30-40 on shipping for 3-5 dollar freshwater fish, so they are still the best place to get live stock.

The US obviously has way more options, but I don't see a point to buying fish online, I like to see the fish, observe its behavior and such, rather buy in person at a decent store than to buy online.

I would not start a store from scratch, but would consider buying an existing profitable store.

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

The best way I’ve heard of to keep a store running is to do consulting and maintenance on the side. There will always be rich people that want to look at their tanks but not want to set it up or do the maintenance.

 

[marvelousone]

I thought about it at one time. I had buying coral on line. Once you pay shipping it is the same at a lfs. I like going to frag swaps and buying or trading from folks in the hobby. It makes a nice road trip. I have drove a 8 hour trip for a load of frags. Have met a bunch of great people.

 

[reefruss]

A good LFS can be hard to find. There are many, but... Also many not so good ones. To me a good LFS is not only a place to buy drygoods, fish and inverts, but also a place to go for 1st hand knowledge. One of my LFS owners definitely isn't in it for the money, but he has a very loyal following because he has been around the block more than a dozen times. He answers all questions from newbies and old salts alike. His proven long haul track record speaks volumes. His store is also a place where many a seasoned reefer go to chat with others of the same ilk. It's more than just a LFS...
It would be difficult, but not impossible, to start something like that today. To many other options with the internet..
If I were retired, had more money than I knew what to do with, I might consider it. For now, I am just very choosy as to where I spend my money. I think most average reefers/Fishkeepers are similar if not the same..

@ndrwater, I see you are in Anaheim. I'm curious where you go down there. I remember 'Tis in Fountain Valley and Aquarium Stock in LA. I'm curious what are the good stores in the area these days.

 

[bobbyM]

To be successful today with an LFS, your market is filling the void where online can not. Set up some pretty display tanks, entry level tanks and equipment for low to middle range hobbyists, with good lighting and pumps. Few big tanks for those binge buyers. Offer installation, and service work for people who want a tank but need to be hands off. Offices, restaurants, doctors lawyers and such will be your main target market. They will buy dry goods from you or through your service and not look online for cheaper prices. Keep your store clean and smelling good. Keep interesting livestock and build from there. Be friendly and out going to everyone.

 

[Lifelongaquaria]

I plan to open one eventually. I am first of all a hobbyist and will be doing much the same things anyway.My plan is to develop more service jobs, breeding at home, online sales, and custom built equipment first. Giving myself a chance to develop a client base before I commit to extra overhead. I am also in a position which is favorable as I already have brick and mortar stores settling other goods. In one of these stores there is room to put everything I need for small operation and is already being paid for. Another thing is that I will offer a guarantee no one else does anymore. I will sell no sick fish, meaning everything must make it through qt procedures before I will be willing to sell anything no matter what the loss is on my end as my favorite lfs used to do. This is something I am moving into a little at a time very patiently and unfortunately will start fresh water and live foods only and grow into saltwater as well eventually. Food for thought good luck whatever you decide.

 

[ca1ore]

Many of the LFS in my area have closed - some to go exclusively online, others consigned to oblivion. Those that do persist do so largely based on their customer tank maintenance services; which doesn't really require a physical store.

 

[theKoolAidMan]

I've never run an LFS but have had a lot of conversations about this topic with the owners of some of the local shops around here. There's a combination of ways they make it a viable business

1. If you're going to stick with saltwater only, also do on-site installation and maintenance. If you're in a large enough urban area there will be no shortage of businesses, restaurants, and doctors offices that will want a saltwater tank and will want to pay a service to install and maintain it. There are three SW only shops in Buffalo, NY and 2 of the 3 do this. One of them treats the store as a secondary revenue stream, to the extent that he's only open from 5-8PM on weekendays so he can service his on-site clients during the day. The other LFS that does this subcontracts out the on-site services. His shop has a big enough following in the area that his name will bring in clients which he gives to his subcontractor and takes a cut.

2. Also sell freshwater. From the business perspective, the shops in the area with the most foot traffic and business are the ones that do both SW and FW. Fishkeeping itself is a fairly niche hobby, with SW and reefing being even more niche. There are simply more people out there keeping freshwater than saltwater due to the easier maintenance so by also having a good FW selection they can reach more people. There are three shops in the Buffalo area that do this. The biggest one, unfortuantely, treats SW as an afterthought and I would never buy any SW livestock there, however they FW livestock they have is simply unrivaled and great quality. Another combo shop very obviously prefers SW and has a good selection, but has an equally sized FW stock which I think helps keep the revenue stream a bit even.

3. Be married with dual income.

4. Be a retiree that is just looking to break even and keep the lights on. Two of the 5 shops that sell SW in the area are owned by retirees whose passion is reefing. One shop is a combo fw/sw shop but with a focus on sw. It is owned by a kind old Vietnamese immigrant and his son. The owner also owns about 5 or 6 asian restaurants in the area and has made a nice living off of them. He allows his younger brothers to run the restaurants now in his retirement and he opened the LFS with his son, who has a degree in biology. They don't care about making a profit, just keeping a clean, respected shop that breaks even. The other one is run by a single man in his 70s. Opened it about 10 years ago and its still going strong. Don't think he makes much, but I also don't think he cares.

All that being said, if you have the right combo, you can have long term success, but don't expect it to be a bit money maker. Of the 5 SW selling shops in the area, one has been around for at least 20 years, 2 for over 10, and 2 for 2 or 3 years.

 

[iDeath]

I think there will always be a market for a good LFS. Buying corals online seems to work for me but ordering fish has been hit or miss... mostly miss. I like to look at the fish see its mannerisms and then have them feed it before my eyes before buying it.