Optimal water parameters for mixed reef

[Christian0505]

Dear fellow reefers,

I get confused more and more by the overload of information available on the internet.

I currently own a mixed reef. The water parameters i am for are the ones recommended by the red sea foundation programm for mixed reefs, meaning.

Salt 1.025
Alkalinity 11
Calcium 450
Magnesium 1350
Ph 8.3

What i don’t get is that i see a lot of people on youtube owning mixed reefs with a alkalinity of about 8. Why would one go for 11 and why for 8. Could anyone clarify please.

Kind regards,
Christian

 

[Hydrored]

I target around 8 but lower nutrients, with an alk of 11 I would only have with higher nutrients

 

[Pete Hammersley]

Agreed, I don’t think people fully understand this point, myself included. Interested to see how the experts explain it.

 

[Pete Hammersley]

My understanding is raised cal + alk can double the rate of coral growth.

 

[Christian0505]

I target around 8 but lower nutrients, with an alk of 11 I would only have with higher nutrients

How are alk and nutritions related and what nutritions are you refering to?

 

[wes urquhart]

The way I understand it is the higher the alk the higher the potential rate of coral growth, assuming all your other parameters are optimal. With higher coral skeleton growth you also need higher nutrients for the coral tissue growth to keep up, otherwise you will have "burnt tips" on your sps.

IE, you have skeleton growth which uses alk, ca, trace elements for growth and then the actual coral tissue is grown with nutrients. This is an oversimplification of the issue but does that answer your question?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Alk a little high on your readings.

 

[Copingwithpods]

The higher the alk, cal and mag the faster the rate of growth and so the faster uptake of nutrients, to keep this in balance with higher alk nutrients like no3 and po4 should also be proportionally higher so they are more available. So where alk, cal and mag are the chemicals and materials a coral needs, the nutrients are the energy to use the materials. More materials require more energy.

Way over simplified

 

[35ppt]

Being within the "normal" range and stable is more important than the actual number and with the inaccuracy of hobbyist test kits many people think it best to aim for the middle of the range.

Alk: ~7-12 so I aim for 9
Ca: ~375-450 so I aim for 420
Mg: ~1200-1400 so I aim for 1300

So at the higher levels Red Sea is recommending you may have some faster growth but also less room for error and as mentioned above you'd want to have higher nutrients.

 

[Christian0505]

The way I understand it is the higher the alk the higher the potential rate of coral growth, assuming all your other parameters are optimal. With higher coral skeleton growth you also need higher nutrients for the coral tissue growth to keep up, otherwise you will have "burnt tips" on your sps.

IE, you have skeleton growth which uses alk, ca, trace elements for growth and then the actual coral tissue is grown with nutrients. This is an oversimplification of the issue but does that answer your question?

Again, what do we mean by nutritions? Amino acids? Or are we talking no3 and po4?

 

[35ppt]

Again, what do we mean by nutritions? Amino acids? Or are we talking no3 and po4?

Most people mean No3 and Po4 when they say nutrients.

 

[Hydrored]

Nitrates and phosphates

 

[wes urquhart]

Again, what do we mean by nutritions? Amino acids? Or are we talking no3 and po4?

Nitrates and phosphates. Amino acids are a whole other can of worms, I'm no expert on it so wont comment.

 

[Copingwithpods]

Again, what do we mean by nutritions? Amino acids? Or are we talking no3 and po4?

In a perfect system Amino acids, proteins, carbohydrates, ammonia, Nitrate and phosphates can all be used by corals as nutrition.

 

[Christian0505]

so to summarize real quick, higher alk gives more growth potential, however this comes with the risk of running your system at steriods, bringing it at disbalance. Is this correct?

 

[ScottB]

I consider running high ALK to carry significant risks. Sure, can be done gradually over time along with keeping high levels of NO3 & PO4. Many people (EUR especially) run Red Sea programs.

I would caution you though, that you should only buy corals & frags (SPS anyway) from systems that ALSO run high ALK. It is too much stress; most will be dead within 30 days. They might look great for a few weeks though.

So with a few probable exceptions (which I am not aware of) you have just ruled out buying corals from every US major online coral vendor. WWC, SC, TSA, J Fox, Chaotic, RR, EC, blah blah. So just check the website (or call) and find out what ALK, NO3, PO4, and PAR the seller is running before you buy.

That is why every system I have direct influence of runs the same parameters. I can buy stuff, frag stuff, move stuff without unnecessary stress.

 

[Christian0505]

That is good to know. I live in Europe so from that point of view it would make sense to run a bit higher alk.

I bought this tank last week as a used tank full of coral and fish (my first reef tank). I use the same parameters as the guy before me did. I will ask my local lfs at what levels they run, and very slowly adjust if needed. Tank you for the claryfication for so far

 

[Hydrored]

My 2 cents is run as close as possible to what your salt is. And I agree with ScottB

 

[Copingwithpods]

My 2 cents is run as close as possible to what your salt is. And I agree with ScottB

^ this right here

Pick a salt that very closely matches the parameters you want to run. Otherwise every water change is a big parameter swing.

 

[Christian0505]

Good to know. I currently have some red sea coral pro salt, which is run at my levels of alk 11 cal 450 en mag 1350. I will see what other salts my lfs had and what parameters they run. Currently my no3 and po4 are quite high due to the move. No3 about 15-20 ppm and po4 at about 0.4.