Orchid dottyback

[Nathan Milender]

I recently bought an orchid dottyback. Locally raised, pre-QTd at store with cholorquine and prazi (according to owner). Looked great. Took it home and put it in DT. Next day white spots on fish. He would come out of hiding for a quick dart and eat only. Became more reclusive as time went on. Dug two burrows. The spots came and went in matter of hours to different locations, but only on one side and never returned to head. Fins are frayed. One side has squarish white fuzzy patches 3x3 mm with poorly demarcated borders. Was too fast to catch initially but eventually a piece of rock was removed with the fish in it 5 days later it is now in QT.

I am not sure what the disease is. The fish is hunkered down in the corner of the QT, not using pvc. nothing on face, . I tried to get a picture but I cannot unless i remove the fish which can be done. I initially thought ich, but now I am thinking not ich or velvet as the spots come and go too fast. Now I am thinking bacterial or fungal. Also, no spots on fins, just fraying. I put some naupli in the QT, he is not going after them.

Other fish in DT which show no signs of disease: Watchman goby, 2 firefish (one had distended belly but it resolved), rainford's goby, bicolor blenny, tailspot blenny, Link's goby.

Tank is 125 gal with 40gal sump. ATO, apex controller shows ph flux 7.9-8.11, gravity 1.025, kh 10 (drops to about 9.5 every week and requires supplemet), ca 425 last night, Nitrate was zero, phos 0.1, ammonia badge yellow. RO/DI is used. UV sterilizer turned on when disease first showed.

Medications on hand: API General cure, Api fungal, freshwater dip, cuprion, coral dip, prime (but not the stresscoat).

I can get some chloroquine tomorrow.

My inclination is do both fungal and bacterial. I would do stress coat if I had it on hand. Any thoughts?

 

[Geebs19]

#reefsquad Lets see what they think

 

[Big G]

Sounds like from your description, your Dottyback has a bacterial infection. True fungal infections are very rare in saltwater fish. Here's @Humblefish 's description and treatment advisory:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacterial-infections.191511/#post-2196167

 

[Nathan Milender]

Thanks for the quick replies. I agree that it also looks bacterial, his description helps. It also fits with the slow onset and malingering fight of most bacterial infections. I was considering fungal d/t the fuzz and the possibility of a secondary infection. Definitely falls into his category 2. Interesting that marine fish do not use amox but regardless, if those others work it is fine by me. I will have to check what api general is. I hope it is not metro. If it is I can get a different one tomorrow. I doubt one more day will make difference to get the correct treatment and I think empiric treatment in this case ought to cover gram point of sale and neg. Fish drugs are so confusing, I really wish they would just sell the generic ingredient with a mg per gal.

 

[Big G]

api general

API General Cure is a blend of praziquantel + Metro. Usually used for internal parasites and flukes.

 

[Nathan Milender]

Well, that will definitely not work for gram neg. Looks like I am off to the store tomorrow.

 

[Big G]

Well, that will definitely not work for gram neg. Looks like I am off to the store tomorrow.

General Cure is my go to for internal parasites and flukes. Good to have in your med kit. Best of luck with your fish.

 

[Humblefish]

It sounds like flukes: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/flukes-–-general-guidelines.224423/

A quick 5 min FW dip would confirm that diagnosis: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

 

[Nathan Milender]

It sounds like flukes: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/flukes-–-general-guidelines.224423/

A quick 5 min FW dip would confirm that diagnosis: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

Thanks for the look. It does not look exactly like the picture but this fish seems to not present the bad side for inspection (thus the lack of picture). It could definitely be flukes and this could explain the one sided presentation. Still does not explain the exclusivity to this single fish. I agree the dip is a good idea and I can examine the debris (if any) under magnification. Having the pictures to compare it to helps a lot. I wish there were more magnified pictures of disease available from reliable sources. I have the water heating up.

 

[Nathan Milender]

Freshwater dip complete. I modified the procedure using a one quart ziplock and a clamp to hold at the top of the QT. This just allowed for better and more stable temp equalization as I do not have a small heater and those jagers are so long. There was some frantic thrashing and eventual nose dive but he seemed to survive after some resuscitation in the QT. Had me worried as he laid on the bottom on his side and hyperventilated.

Water from the ziplock was poured into a bucket and then run through my smallest sieve (120 uM). Only thing that had cellular structure on the dissecting scope was a brine shrimp egg at right about 120 uM in size. The sieve was actually translucent which made the search fast as the grid helped to guide. Much like doing a cbc the old way with a cytometer.

I should have thought of this before: To avoid nets I have been using cheap cheese molds as rigid nets. Mine are round but I bet I could get square ones which would be better for the corners. Anyways, I trapped him next to the glass where I could really get a look (of course not within reach of my camera). On close inspection it appeared that the white spots were eroded scales. Not sure what would cause that. No granulation or open sore noted. Definitely within the fish's dermal layer and not on top of it. I can repeat this tomorrow for a pic as I want to leave him alone for a bit since I do not have a treatment on hand anyways. This could just be serious harassment and he will heal up with some isolation.

 

[Humblefish]

If he doesn't heal on his own, a 30 min MB bath will help with that: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/methylene-blue.257467/

 

[Nathan Milender]

I kept looking, he is laying on the bottom again with the hyperventilation. Not sure if this is how he sleeps or not as he usually goes in something. This link has pictures which are fuzzy, but look like very similar lesions. I do not have the source water issue mentioned, but it could be aggression. I did notice the peppermint shrimp going into the orchid's cave which seemed weird but I did not think anything of it. Not sure if one of those would tear into into a fish laying on the bottom if given the opportunity. https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/index.php?threads/what-is-wrong-with-my-orchid-dottyback.396482/

 

[Nathan Milender]

Well, lost this one. He is a goner. Found him drifting in the current not even moving his pectorals. I will take a close look and see if I can see anything that looks pathogenic.

 

[Humblefish]

Sorry for your loss

 

[Nathan Milender]

The white splotchy areas were missing scales. I could not find any obvious parasites. There were very fine black spots which concentrated on the caudal side of the scales and did extend under the operculum. Appeared sub-dermal and uniformly spaced so I assume pigment. Eyes were clear blue. Fins were frayed but nothing that looked like infection. Gills appeared fine, fleshy with red blood in them, no obvious lesions or parasites.

I am not sure what killed this one. Could the FW dip have done it? Seems unlikely but it was the last action take before apparent distress. RO/DI water floated in the same aquarium for an hour should have been the same temp. Other causes, straight stress? luck? Should this one have been left in his cave?

Regardless of the outcome. I appreciate the assistance. Maybe the next one will be saved.

 

[Big G]

Sorry for your loss. Appreciate the amazingly clear analysis of your dottyback's condition. Rare.