Orchid Dottybacks in pairs / groups

[Zionas]

I wonder if it’s possible or safe to keep Orchid Dottybacks in pairs or groups. Do they naturally spawn in pairs or harems? Also is it true that the male often dies early because he exhausts his energy tending to all range eggs? I was thinking maybe a group of 3 (1M 2 F) but don’t want them to whittle down to one, so I wanna get the social structure right.
What about Sunrise Dottybacks and their social structure / aggression levels?
And how long do they usually live? Is 10+ years common?


(I recently got in touch with a guy in China- yep, China, who’s breeding both species in his own home)

 

[mfinn]

I have 3 ( captive bred ) Orchid Dottybacks in my 240.
The each have their own little spot they hid in on one end of the tank.
I don't see any aggression between them. Could happen when I'm not near the tank. When I am they are always out begging for food.

 

[FullSend]

Orchids should be able to maintain a group. I'm not sure about the male exhausting himself.

Sunrises, on the other hand, are much more aggressive. They may not even for a stable pair.

You should be able to pick juveniles and have them figure out pairing, like clowns.

This is what I remember from Wittenrich's book.

 

[Zionas]

Have you seen any spawning behavior between the male and one or both females?

 

[Zionas]

I have his book so I’m familiar with what you’re referring to. I wonder if Orchids spawn exclusively in pairs or also harems?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

My single orchid won't stand the sight of any other fish, much less one that looks like it.
. Straight up Richard.

 

[Zionas]

That’s weird. Is it a captive bred one and how big is your setup?

 

[nereefpat]

@mort , @ThRoewer

 

[Zionas]

Thanks

 

[FullSend]

My single orchid won't stand the sight of any other fish, much less one that looks like it.
. Straight up Richard.

Are you sure it is an orchid? Sounds like a magenta.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Are you sure it is an orchid? Sounds like a magenta.

Positive. Racing stripe down the eye and all.

 

[Zionas]

Would be interesting to know if they only spawn in pairs or in harems too.

 

[FullSend]

I'm guessing it would be easier to establish a spawning pair. That being said I think a harem is possible and would be more interesting. A harem runs the risk that one of the females suddenly challenges and kills the male upsetting the social dynamics.

 

[Zionas]

Interesting. I’d love to find out more on whether they only spawn in pairs or both pairs and harems, but the scenario you mentioned definitely isn’t something I’m keen about lol.

Wonder if it’s the same for dwarf angels?

 

[FullSend]

Wonder if it’s the same for dwarf angels?

I think it will always work that way if the species can change sex from female to male. The only thing keeping the females from transitioning is the pressure put on them by the male. If they feel like the male is weak or they are not getting enough attention they may transition.

It is also probably rare this happens if nothing changes in the aquarium. I could see it happening if the male becomes sick or the fish are moved from one aquarium to another. Large size discrepancies should also discourage any conflicts.

There was a thread in the macro forum where a hobbies had a large harem of royal grammas. They had the male disappear at some point and the largest female took his place.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Positive. Racing stripe down the eye and all.

I'm becoming incresingly convinced that orchid dottybacks are naturally gregarious and social and need to be kept in pairs at a minimum. I've always kept mine in pairs, and they've never shown aggression to other fish.

Solitary dottybacks seem to be prone to skittishness and anxiety.

 

[Zionas]

solitary humans too, even this introvert. xD sorry couldn’t help it.

So how do your pairs get along? And have you thought of trying a harem? I’m also curious how long Orchids live for.

 

[Zionas]

Interesting. This is not related to Dottybacks yeah but I’m really concerned as to whether it’s “safer” for dwarf angels to be kept in pairs or harems.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Interesting. This is not related to Dottybacks yeah but I’m really concerned as to whether it’s “safer” for dwarf angels to be kept in pairs or harems.

I don't think that dwarf angels should be kept in pairs unless they're mated, and that seems to be an involved process. They're intelligent, dominant fish, and forced pairings are much more likely to result in aggression and unhappiness than bonded harmony. I think you're much more likely to be successful mixing species of dwarf angels in a tank than you are with attempting a mated pair.

Dottybacks seem to work out their pair dynamics fairly easily. I've never attempted a harem, but might do it if I shift some fish around into different tanks. Dottybacks are gorgeous, and watching them pop up and around live rock in a group would be an amazing thing to see.

 

[FullSend]

I don't think that dwarf angels should be kept in pairs unless they're mated, and that seems to be an involved process. They're intelligent, dominant fish, and forced pairings are much more likely to result in aggression and unhappiness than bonded harmony. I think you're much more likely to be successful mixing species of dwarf angels in a tank than you are with attempting a mated pair.

I disagree here, I believe fish should be kept in pairs where possible. Given a QT with a divider of some sort, the smallest individuals with an obvious size disparity, and some time, pairing dwarf angels should be straight forward.

Dottybacks seem to work out their pair dynamics fairly easily. I've never attempted a harem, but might do it if I shift some fish around into different tanks. Dottybacks are gorgeous, and watching them pop up and around live rock in a group would be an amazing thing to see.

Wittenrich's book has pages dedicated on how to keep dottyback pairs that are spawning regularly from killing each other. Orchids should not be considered the norm for dottybacks.