saltgeek88
New Member
So im looking at either getting 2 Orphek Atlantik V2 or 1 of the Giesman Futura-S 6. Does anyone have experiance with either?
Orphek vs. Giesmann
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ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
German V International ("Not Chinese") Company
I would see both over a reef and then feel if one is hotter than the other.
Poor thermal management causes any electronic equipment to fail prematurely.
Also the looks on the coral...Most Cree and Bridgelux Multichip Flash Light LEDs will grow coral...But looks matter.
Efficiency is another consideration.
Also MH Bulbs last about 1 year. I'm skeptical of any company that only offers a 1 year warranty when most quality drivers and fans are rated for over 30,000 hours and quality LEDs are rated for 70% after 50,000 hours...
Not much more to a LED Light other than a heatsink, controller and housing...
I would see both over a reef and then feel if one is hotter than the other.
Poor thermal management causes any electronic equipment to fail prematurely.
Also the looks on the coral...Most Cree and Bridgelux Multichip Flash Light LEDs will grow coral...But looks matter.
Efficiency is another consideration.
Also MH Bulbs last about 1 year. I'm skeptical of any company that only offers a 1 year warranty when most quality drivers and fans are rated for over 30,000 hours and quality LEDs are rated for 70% after 50,000 hours...
Not much more to a LED Light other than a heatsink, controller and housing...
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I absolutely disagree with the statement, "Not much more to LED light other than heatsink, controller and housing..."
The spectrum is what it's all about and that statement is about like saying that there isn't too much to good water. Just an RO, some salt and a mixing pump.
The spectrum of any LED can be good or bad depending on what you are doing.
If everyone is using "X" brand and there is no difference, as the previous post states, then you should buy the cheapest LED on the market, afterall they're all the same right?
If you analyze the actual output of a fixture and how it is tuned then you will see where some of the differences are. Those differences are due to the spectrum that the LEDs put out.
Without sounding like a commercial, you need to look at the spectrum of each fixture and decide for yourself which one has what corals need in more abundance and less of what they don't need.
Check this article out for some specific info on our Atlantik light. Then go look for the info on the other lights you are looking for. After all, anyone with a computer can order heatsinks, controllers and housing, right. So that means that anyone can start an LED company?
IN-DEPTH UNDERSTANDING OF ORPHEK ATLANTIK V2 GROUNDBREAKING TECHNOLOGY ? Orphek LED ? LED Aquarium Lights ? Aquarium LED lighting
As for warranty and the poke at chinese made products. Both products listed by the OP offer a 1 year warranty and the fact that our fixture is assembled in China really isn't relevant in today's world. After all, apple products are made in China right? Quality control is what it's all about. Besides, if a fixture is assembled anywhere in the world with cheap chinese parts....then it's not a good fixture. High quality components along with strict QC and testing beat location any day of the week.
Giesemann Giesemann Lichttechnik -
Orphek Warranty
The spectrum is what it's all about and that statement is about like saying that there isn't too much to good water. Just an RO, some salt and a mixing pump.
The spectrum of any LED can be good or bad depending on what you are doing.
If everyone is using "X" brand and there is no difference, as the previous post states, then you should buy the cheapest LED on the market, afterall they're all the same right?
If you analyze the actual output of a fixture and how it is tuned then you will see where some of the differences are. Those differences are due to the spectrum that the LEDs put out.
Without sounding like a commercial, you need to look at the spectrum of each fixture and decide for yourself which one has what corals need in more abundance and less of what they don't need.
Check this article out for some specific info on our Atlantik light. Then go look for the info on the other lights you are looking for. After all, anyone with a computer can order heatsinks, controllers and housing, right. So that means that anyone can start an LED company?
IN-DEPTH UNDERSTANDING OF ORPHEK ATLANTIK V2 GROUNDBREAKING TECHNOLOGY ? Orphek LED ? LED Aquarium Lights ? Aquarium LED lighting
As for warranty and the poke at chinese made products. Both products listed by the OP offer a 1 year warranty and the fact that our fixture is assembled in China really isn't relevant in today's world. After all, apple products are made in China right? Quality control is what it's all about. Besides, if a fixture is assembled anywhere in the world with cheap chinese parts....then it's not a good fixture. High quality components along with strict QC and testing beat location any day of the week.
Giesemann Giesemann Lichttechnik -
Orphek Warranty
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
Before one purchases a BMW or Mercedes its best to see both in person or better...take one for a test drive.
The Cree XT-E Cool White has over 28 different variations ranging from 5K to 8K. Not to mention intensity.
The Fact that Orphek can produce an 18K White LED of their own is worth seeing in person.
If you open up a LED Fixture you will see how simple it is.
The specific LEDs and what backs them up matters.
These quality fixtures are not EBay Imports and are a significant investment.
Growth is easy 420-460nm...But the right combination of other LEDs makes the look.
Both lights along with a bunch of others provide this...
The Cree XT-E Cool White has over 28 different variations ranging from 5K to 8K. Not to mention intensity.
The Fact that Orphek can produce an 18K White LED of their own is worth seeing in person.
If you open up a LED Fixture you will see how simple it is.
The specific LEDs and what backs them up matters.
These quality fixtures are not EBay Imports and are a significant investment.
Growth is easy 420-460nm...But the right combination of other LEDs makes the look.
Both lights along with a bunch of others provide this...
More specifically....very low in the green and yellow spectrums which is what the CREE leds put out vast amounts of. Great for growing algae. This is because they are designed for household use and need to be bright for the human eye. The human eye is not the same as corals.Throwing a bunch of household leds onto a heatsink is not the ideal way to design a premium fixture.
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But yes, better to see in person. Just like any big purchase even BMW and Mercedes. 
As for the 18k LEDs let me see what I can do to help with that.
As for the 18k LEDs let me see what I can do to help with that.
PUR vs PAR
PUR Photosynthetically Useable Radiation
400-550 nm (violet, blue) and 620-700 nm (red)
PUR differs from PAR because the basic definition of PAR is any light in a specific frequency range. PUR is the usable portion of PAR, and different photosynthetic species will have a different PUR range to which they respond.
For example: you are given a choice to illuminate your coral with two different lights, each with the same PAR value.
However, one of these lights produces energy that peaks at 450nm, or the blue spectrum, and one peaks at 590nm, or the yellow spectrum.
For zooxanthellae in your coral’s tissue, the light peaking at 450nm will have greater PUR than the light that peaks at 590nm Green LED, although the PAR numbers are the same.
PUR is a much more useful way to compare LED lighting than any other method.
Most LEDs emit excellent PAR, but often only ~50% of the PAR is PUR.
The higher the PUR
AR ratio (check the spectrograph!) the more effective the LED will be for lighting photosynthetic reef invertebrates.
PUR Photosynthetically Useable Radiation
400-550 nm (violet, blue) and 620-700 nm (red)
PUR differs from PAR because the basic definition of PAR is any light in a specific frequency range. PUR is the usable portion of PAR, and different photosynthetic species will have a different PUR range to which they respond.
For example: you are given a choice to illuminate your coral with two different lights, each with the same PAR value.
However, one of these lights produces energy that peaks at 450nm, or the blue spectrum, and one peaks at 590nm, or the yellow spectrum.
For zooxanthellae in your coral’s tissue, the light peaking at 450nm will have greater PUR than the light that peaks at 590nm Green LED, although the PAR numbers are the same.
PUR is a much more useful way to compare LED lighting than any other method.
Most LEDs emit excellent PAR, but often only ~50% of the PAR is PUR.
The higher the PUR
AR ratio (check the spectrograph!) the more effective the LED will be for lighting photosynthetic reef invertebrates.
Spinner
Community Member
Both Orphek and Giesmann are TOP quality products you would do well with one or the other. The difference for me and the reason I will be going with Orphek is their R&D evolution with their LED fixture's. Their transparency and provided information of their products gives us hobbiest all the information needed to make an educated purchase. I don't want to sound like a Orphek sound bite so I will stop here once your LED fixture research/homework is complete you will understand what I am saying
Good Luck!!!
Good Luck!!!
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
Every Chef has their opinion on the best recipe. Personally I like the fact the fact the Cree is darn close to full spectrum and has proven it self in numerous quality fixtures.More specifically....very low in the green and yellow spectrums which is what the CREE leds put out vast amounts of. Great for growing algae. This is because they are designed for household use and need to be bright for the human eye. The human eye is not the same as corals.Throwing a bunch of household leds onto a heatsink is not the ideal way to design a premium fixture.
Reds also grow algae but too much is bad for coral.
In my personal refuge I grow Macro Algae using primarily the 450nm spectrum with a hint of Cree Cool White...Great results with no Hair Algae...
Once we have the growth covered its about highlighting the pigments and adding colour to taste.
The reason the Cree XT-E and Luxion Royal Blue are popular is they both provide a significant amount of PUR/PAR per Watt without generating excess heat.
Bill
Pigment excitation does not translate to coral health or color. It only relates to the visible appearance of the coral and while that is VERY important to our both of our livelihoods, we must first and foremost focus on the health of the animal in order to improve the look through increased health and vigor. This is why the intensity of the correct spectrum is so important.
After all eating 2 supersize meals from McDonalds is NOT better for you than a well proportioned meal of chicken, 2 veggies and a fresh green salad. More spectrum does NOT translate to healthier corals. This is why I dislike the use of the term full spectrum in our industry. What are we going to do next? Throw in the kitchen sink?
BTW- This is a good debate and I see we are picking up some watchers! Hi guys!
After all eating 2 supersize meals from McDonalds is NOT better for you than a well proportioned meal of chicken, 2 veggies and a fresh green salad. More spectrum does NOT translate to healthier corals. This is why I dislike the use of the term full spectrum in our industry. What are we going to do next? Throw in the kitchen sink?
BTW- This is a good debate and I see we are picking up some watchers!
Hi guys!
I just shot a little video of the Spectrometer doing it's thing. Uploading to youtube now.
Here is a screen shot of the test for those of you who couldn't wait.
Here is a screen shot of the test for those of you who couldn't wait.
Yes, what you are seeing is correct. This is an 18k white LED that has a huge peak at 450nm. There are no tricks involved. Just good science and excellent resources.
There is more to designing and producing a light for growing corals than ordering/assembling a heatsink, driver, LEDs and a housing.
The combination of spectrums allows us to produce a fixture that grows/colors corals while still maintaining the beautiful colors that nature presents us with.
There is more to designing and producing a light for growing corals than ordering/assembling a heatsink, driver, LEDs and a housing.
The combination of spectrums allows us to produce a fixture that grows/colors corals while still maintaining the beautiful colors that nature presents us with.
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ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
Pigment excitation does not translate to coral health or color. It only relates to the visible appearance of the coral and while that is VERY important to our both of our livelihoods, we must first and foremost focus on the health of the animal in order to improve the look through increased health and vigor. This is why the intensity of the correct spectrum is so important.
After all eating 2 supersize meals from McDonalds is NOT better for you than a well proportioned meal of chicken, 2 veggies and a fresh green salad. More spectrum does NOT translate to healthier corals. This is why I dislike the use of the term full spectrum in our industry. What are we going to do next? Throw in the kitchen sink?
BTW- This is a good debate and I see we are picking up some watchers!
Hate to say it but totally agree..
Corals are used to mostly the 420-460nm....
They have adapted over the millions of years to regulate their zooxanthellae algae to optimize their sugars and oxygen...Simple Explanation...
The perfect fixture would have the optimal 420-460nm intensity for growth then enough of the other spectrums to excite the pigments and optimize looks...Lots of different ways of doing this well.
A deeper look into the research shows the complexity of the photosynthetic process of corals. Also one would consider photo-inhibition and then choose the right LEDs that the optimize the looks of the Coral as they reflect this excessive light...350-500+ PAR
One could complicate this even more but it is really this simple. Growth...Looks...Efficiency...in this order.
As far a looks and health water chemistry and flow are a huge part...As Well...
Not to mention the fauna that we never see in the Live Rock that provide the more complex food and proteins to supplement the energy the zooxanthellae algae provide for our corals.
This also is a factor in coral colour and health.
I would really like to see the stats on the 18K White compared to other quality 3 and 5 watt "Cool White" LEDs...Just for the record...
Bill
Photo inhibition is a large part of coral coloration and intensity is where the rubber meets the road so to speak. Having very high levels of the correct spectrum will cause the corals to color up beyond even what one would see in nature. Some have equated it to "coral sunscreen" which is really a good comparison. Higher intensities cause corals and their zooxanthellae algaes to produce extreme pigments to combat the levels of light they are receiving. This can however be overdone causing poor results, especially if done with the incorrect spectrum.
Water params, flow and available food are all part of the equation.
I try to explain to people that we are a food company, we are no different than any other food company. We give you food for your corals. Are you going to feed them flake food meant for freshwater fish or are you going to feed them a quality freshly made batch of LRS reef Frenzy? It's your choice.
Water params, flow and available food are all part of the equation.
I try to explain to people that we are a food company, we are no different than any other food company. We give you food for your corals. Are you going to feed them flake food meant for freshwater fish or are you going to feed them a quality freshly made batch of LRS reef Frenzy? It's your choice.
TrPPnN
Community Member
Photo-inhibition is definitely needed for overall well being of corals... It's not just the necessary growth spectrums that make an LED light fixture... Photo-inhibition, however is NOT prevalent in the 500 to 600 nm range... that understanding is misinformation... The areas of higher energy wavelengths is what is responsible for that sunscreen effect... by matching the color to be reflected, is nature's way of photo inhibition, such as the reasoning why leaves are green during growth and reproduction... not producing "sun screen"... synthesis takes energy... Reflection utilizes less...
