Other options besides quarantine

[lewis.maryann08]

Well I didn't QT mine either and I bought a pretty little fish that looked healthy and it had velvet and I lost every fish I had not once but twice! !
I list alot of money because these fish are not cheap. . Now I am down to 7 fish they are in a QT tank and doing well why my 80 gallon has nothing in it for 6 weeks I will never buy another fish or coral and put it in my tank before it being QT .. it's not worth losing everything I loved them fish so take your chances but sooner or later it will happen.

 

[mgoesma]

I have had a tank setup for the last five years. In the beginning I lost a whole tank a fish to Ick and have quarantined ever since. Here is my process;
1. Drip acclimate fish to quarantine tank water ( I check SG of water fish came in and QT tank to determine length of time for acclimation). I usually try to drop my SG in the QT before getting the fish since most fish tend to come in lower SG water, I have seen down to 1.020.
2. Day 1 - Leave lights off and let fish relax for first day and observe for any immediate concerns.
3. Day 2 - Add dose of prazipro.
4. Day 6 - Do 50% water change and start copper.
5. Day 7 to 28 - raise copper slowly over a couple of days, test copper level every other day, monitor ammonia and do water changes as needed. Feed well. Determine what the fish like to eat.
6. Day 28 - 50% water change and add second dose of Prazipro.
7. Day 32 - Add to main tank. During this whole time I slowly match the QT and display tanks SG and temp so I just drop the fish into the DT.
8. If during this time I notice any infections or fungus I use Kanaplex for 6 days. I use this with Copper and haven't had any issues.
Since doing this I have not lost a single fish, everyone is healthy and happy in the DT and I have been able to add hard to keep fish such as a powder blue tang.
Also, have not lost a fish in Quarantine either. MUCH better track record than just adding fish straight to the DT.

Thank you this is exactly what I am looking for. Anyone else?

 

[Lenny_S]

I am looking for what worked for people. Not what didn't work or what they are trying but have not received results yet.

I've used extended quarantine and TTM. For TTM I do a total of 6 transfers and use Prazi during at least 2 of them. I do the extra transfer(s) so I can get to at least the minimal time to see Brook. But then again I only do this on fish species where Ich and/or Velvet are more common than Brook. I also only do this for fish I get that are already feeding and acting in top form. For all others I do a 75 day total quarantine. I have a QT and a hospital tank. First they go in the QT for 30 days which runs with copper and is bare, I use a HOB filter and have a set of sponges for that filter that I rotate through sterilization and seeding from my DT for biological filtration. Once a QT is done I wipe the tank clean. After the 30 days, they go in the hospital tank. That tank runs Prazi and Melafix and is a permanent setup with Sand, LR, hiding places and lighting similar to the DT. They stay there for 45 days and get them eating, and bulking up prior to going in the DT. The other benefit of the hospital tank is if any of my fish in the DT need special treatment, I can trap them and mover them there to recover and then return them back to the DT. I know it sounds like a lot, but to be honest I enjoy doing it as part of the total experience of the hobby. And I feel good that I'm being the best host I can for these fish that I take the responsibility to care for.

 

[mgoesma]

I've used extended quarantine and TTM. For TTM I do a total of 6 transfers and use Prazi during at least 2 of them. I do the extra transfer(s) so I can get to at least the minimal time to see Brook. But then again I only do this on fish species where Ich and/or Velvet are more common than Brook. I also only do this for fish I get that are already feeding and acting in top form. For all others I do a 75 day total quarantine. I have a QT and a hospital tank. First they go in the QT for 30 days which runs with copper and is bare, I use a HOB filter and have a set of sponges for that filter that I rotate through sterilization and seeding from my DT for biological filtration. Once a QT is done I wipe the tank clean. After the 30 days, they go in the hospital tank. That tank runs Prazi and Melafix and is a permanent setup with Sand, LR, hiding places and lighting similar to the DT. They stay there for 45 days and get them eating, and bulking up prior to going in the DT. The other benefit of the hospital tank is if any of my fish in the DT need special treatment, I can trap them and mover them there to recover and then return them back to the DT. I know it sounds like a lot, but to be honest I enjoy doing it as part of the total experience of the hobby. And I feel good that I'm being the best host I can for these fish that I take the responsibility to care for.

Thank you. This is great info. Keep them coming.

 

[Paul B]

He means very resistant. His fish don't get ill regardless of what is added. Part of this is that the fish types he keeps aren't too sensitive to parasites -- except he had or has an idol that does well! (IME idols can be very hardy if fed well with good foods that match their wild diet after the first year). But he doesn't keep tangs, particularly not the fragile tangs that are especially susceptible to parasites such as acanthurus tangs -- even more succinctly Achilles, powders, and goldrim.

!

Immune, Very resistant, Supermodel status, it's all semantics. I don't have any tangs now as I find them boring but my tank always had a hippo tang and I think the last three lasted over 10 years. Hippo's are cool looking, the rest are boring. I do have, and almost always had a copperband butterfly and I can see from the disease threads that many of them get ich or something that kills them. I am not sure if the rest of my 25 or so fish are susceptible to ich in other tanks because my fish are not allowed to get sick and never do. I have bangai's, 5 or 6 wrasses, blue stripe pipes, clowns, some anthius, a few wrasses, clingfish, etc. Fish should never get sick, I mean like never. I am not the God of fish and mine don't get sick so no fish should get sick. That is why they have such a good immune system but most people just allow the fishes immune system to wither (I like that word) and let their fish get sick which is good I guess because disease threads are so popular.
It may also be the Supermodels who take care of my tank while I am away that keeps them immune. I really don't know.
I don't have any medications or a hospital tank but I do have a bottle of copper/formalin. It was made in Brooklyn and the directions read to keep in a cool chariot so it is old.
I don't see no stinkin Ich

 

[Saltine]

Now there are some store in town that I have been and I would flat out would not purchase just from the looks of there tanks. You know you can request and @WWC will order what you are looking for?

Yea, I tried to get a new Mandarin clown from them forever but they never got one. Ended up getting it from Reefers Direct.

 

[mgoesma]

Againcan, you please post your process for introducing fish. Along with how long you have done it and the success. Please include any medications, feedings, anything you do.

 

[mgoesma]

Currently I have the following meds on my shopping list. Prazi and copper. I am also going to use safty stop. Anything I'm missing in turn after meds?

 

[mgoesma]

OK. $125 down and I have everything.

 

[mgoesma]

I have had a tank setup for the last five years. In the beginning I lost a whole tank a fish to Ick and have quarantined ever since. Here is my process;
1. Drip acclimate fish to quarantine tank water ( I check SG of water fish came in and QT tank to determine length of time for acclimation). I usually try to drop my SG in the QT before getting the fish since most fish tend to come in lower SG water, I have seen down to 1.020.
2. Day 1 - Leave lights off and let fish relax for first day and observe for any immediate concerns.
3. Day 2 - Add dose of prazipro.
4. Day 6 - Do 50% water change and start copper.
5. Day 7 to 28 - raise copper slowly over a couple of days, test copper level every other day, monitor ammonia and do water changes as needed. Feed well. Determine what the fish like to eat.
6. Day 28 - 50% water change and add second dose of Prazipro.
7. Day 32 - Add to main tank. During this whole time I slowly match the QT and display tanks SG and temp so I just drop the fish into the DT.
8. If during this time I notice any infections or fungus I use Kanaplex for 6 days. I use this with Copper and haven't had any issues.
Since doing this I have not lost a single fish, everyone is healthy and happy in the DT and I have been able to add hard to keep fish such as a powder blue tang.
Also, have not lost a fish in Quarantine either. MUCH better track record than just adding fish straight to the DT.

His is the process I'm going with. Thank you again.

 

[TCFletch]

I've purchased a few fish from WWC, no issues yet. Although I prefer to buy fish from other hobbyists. My wife just wouldn't be cool with having a 10 or 20g tank with a fish in it for 3 weeks for a QT.

I've got 10 fish and have had zero issues. My parents on the other hand have 2 tanks a 90 and 125 with about 30 total fish. They never QT either, now they have fish that they purchase die within a week or two for no apparent reason, but I've yet to see a disease in their tanks. They literally buy a fish a week..... from some shady places. I'm really not sure how they haven't had to deal with something...

Best of luck to ya! I'm on the no QT train.... For now....

All fish die for a reason. Especially if the fish is young. In that case, the fish keeper wasn't responsible enough to QT.

 

[Valkyrie]

But I don't want to get to far into this as I said, just quarantine and forget about it. OK, go about your business and talk about quarantining and forget the people with very old tanks that never quarantine. The Droids you are searching for are not here.

Speaking from a newbie's perspective; that's not fair. You don't want to go into it and that's dandy, this thread is probably not the place for it anyway, but I'm not going to "forget the people with very old tanks that never quarantine." THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE I WANT TO HEAR FROM! To me you just dangled the hook and yanked it away , then pointed and laughed. I'd be very interested in how you've come to have such healthy, disease resistant fish. I'm hearing a kick-butt immune system and that's something I'm interested in. It's not that I'm so much as interested in disease as much as I'm interested in prevention and the building of healthy immune systems. It also sounds like you have opportunities that are not afforded to the average fishkeeper. If that's an important factor, I'd like to know that, too.

I know that ya'all are used to people that come and go, selling their tanks on Craigslist in less than a year, but I'm not that person. I'm the little kid that spent every single day of her summer vacations in 1973 & 74 at the Newport, OR marine science center. I'm the kid whose parents started freshwater tanks in 1968 and I haven't been without fish since then. I'm actually BEGGING for information like a panhandler begging for her next aquarium fix.

So if you've already posted ad nauseum about how you do things, please, just point me in the right direction to read those posts and I'll do the rest.
Thanks.
Peace.

 

[Valkyrie]

My parents on the other hand have 2 tanks a 90 and 125 with about 30 total fish. They never QT either, now they have fish that they purchase die within a week or two for no apparent reason, but I've yet to see a disease in their tanks. They literally buy a fish a week..... from some shady places. I'm really not sure how they haven't had to deal with something...

I didn't notice this post until someone else responded to it and I admit when I read the whole thing I was stunned. Why? Because what I've quoted here is a huge contradiction.

They have fish that die for no apparent reason.
You don't see a disease.
They buy a fish a week.
And to top it all off, you're not sure why they haven't had to deal with something.

Sounds to me like they've got HUGE issues with disease and they're dealing with something every week. They're just not ADDRESSING the issue(s). Fish don't just die for no reason, it's usually from disease or poor water quality. I can't stand to think of the suffering, it makes me really sad.

 

[justingraham]

Speaking from a newbie's perspective; that's not fair. You don't want to go into it and that's dandy, this thread is probably not the place for it anyway, but I'm not going to "forget the people with very old tanks that never quarantine." THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE I WANT TO HEAR FROM! To me you just dangled the hook and yanked it away , then pointed and laughed. I'd be very interested in how you've come to have such healthy, disease resistant fish. I'm hearing a kick-butt immune system and that's something I'm interested in. It's not that I'm so much as interested in disease as much as I'm interested in prevention and the building of healthy immune systems. It also sounds like you have opportunities that are not afforded to the average fishkeeper. If that's an important factor, I'd like to know that, too.

I know that ya'all are used to people that come and go, selling their tanks on Craigslist in less than a year, but I'm not that person. I'm the little kid that spent every single day of her summer vacations in 1973 & 74 at the Newport, OR marine science center. I'm the kid whose parents started freshwater tanks in 1968 and I haven't been without fish since then. I'm actually BEGGING for information like a panhandler begging for her next aquarium fix.

So if you've already posted ad nauseum about how you do things, please, just point me in the right direction to read those posts and I'll do the rest.
Thanks.
Peace.

I couldn't have said it better I feel the same exact way

 

[Deinonych]

LOL Chris!!! I was joking!!! The only velvet I like is red velvet

I know.

 

[Deinonych]

OK, lets try a different angle. Can everyone please post a picture of your tank. # of years in the hobby, amount of time since last incodent, and your process of introducing new fish.

Here's my protocol. I get all of my fish online FWIW (most came from LADD).

Day 1: Acclimate fish to QT; salinity is matched to transport bag, so I just temperature float and release
Day 2-7: Allow fish to settle in and get on a schedule, ensure they are feeding etc.
Day 8-20: TTM with Prazipro added on the 2nd and 4th transfers
Day 21-42+: Observe closely for an additional ailments. Brook and velvet usually present themselves within the first 30 days, so this gives me extra time to ensure there are no disease agents.
Day 43+: Transfer to DT, preferably using an acclimation box. The fish will stay in the acclimation box until their behavior indicates they are ready to be released.

I also keep the following meds on hand in case I see any ailments:
Kanamycin, Nitrofurazone, Metronidazole (broad-spectrum anti-bacterial)
Formalin (Brooklynella hostilis, Uronema marinum)
Chloroquine Phosphate (Amyloodinium ocellatum, aka marine velvet)

 

[mcarroll]

There's an Ich vaccine...

..under development. Right?

UFla mentions it in their Ich guide that way....but I've never looked up the current status.

Well I didn't QT mine either and I bought a pretty little fish that looked healthy and it had velvet and I lost every fish I had not once but twice! !

I don't think it's fair to blame the new guy. I don't even understand how than came to be seen as logical.

If things really worked like that the ocean would be devoid of fish.

Dillution only goes so far....fish socialize...eventually there would be zero fish.

Fish have immune systems that work much like ours...when they are compromised, they become susceptible just like we do. When they are healthy, they can be around sick people, just like we can.

Just as with fish, it doesn't take a magic bullet to make a healthy, resistant human...we just have to eat right. If you let your fish eat right and build your fish population very slowly, I think you can expect success...you'll have time to learn how to get the environment right this way, and the magnitude of accidents or incidents will be minimized too.

Don't blame the new guy next time, please...he's new in town and it's not (entirely) his fault.

I'd be very interested in how you've come to have such healthy, disease resistant fish.

There is a book if you're really interested. I'm still getting through it, but it seems more comprehensive than most husbandry books I've read.

From what I've learned about PB from reading here, I think I can get it down to one main point:

He built his fish population over the scope of years, and it wasn't perfect from day 1.

He learned what fish aren't fun to keep along the way.
He learned how to keep fish alive along the way.
He built some amazing contraptions to help his fish along the way.
He had lots of time to do lots of things.

Most people seem to build their fish populations in days or weeks hoping a magic bullet will give them a perfect tank full of fish.

What they learn along the way is that building a fish population quickly doesn't work out in the long run....or if it does it's rare luck, because look at the disease forum....this counts all cases, failed QT's, failed fallows, no QT's and all.

A big part of this is that most people don't give themselves time to learn anything at all about the fish in their tanks along the way. I don't mean "read books about them" I mean get to know them by taking care of them, over time, in real life. (But you should read books too. ) This time with the fish "along the way" really counts if you're an intelligent human because you learn and invent stuff along the way. That's what we do. Don't short change that!

Instead, the stocking of a tank is usually all said and done before the first mistake has a chance to happen. We hope the magic bullet works!

Do you catch my drift?

I get all of my fish online

Every fish bought online has the same number of brutal, long distance trips over land as the fish at your LFS....plus one more just because we want them $5 cheaper delivered from out of state.

I'd expect online purchases to be even more compromised than LFS fish pretty much every time. Live arrival guarantees are there because they are needed, after all...some get more compromised than others.

Worth considering at the very least when providing accommodations for such fish...be as nice to them as you're able to be.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

No, it's developed... just not for "us".

 

[mcarroll]

No, it's developed... just not for "us".

Link

 

[Paul B]

Speaking from a newbie's perspective; that's not fair. You don't want to go into it and that's dandy, this thread is probably not the place for it anyway, but I'm not going to "forget the people with very old tanks that never quarantine." THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE I WANT TO HEAR FROM! To me you just dangled the hook and yanked it away , then pointed and laughed. I'd be very interested in how you've come to have such healthy, disease resistant fish.

So if you've already posted ad nauseum about how you do things, please, just point me in the right direction to read those posts and I'll do the rest.
Thanks.
Peace.

Valkyrie, it is fair because I have posted this dozens of times over many many years. I wrote many articles and even wrote a book. I just can't go over it on every thread that is about quaranting.
Here is one. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-discussion-on-immunity.209701/
Here is another http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/marine-fish-heal-through-slime-3962/
and another http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/in-praise-of-fish-oil-6127/
I can go on. http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/want-healthy-spawning-fish-feed-them-properly-5010/
And my tank thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-birthday-40-years.55423/
I am a writer on that site so you can search my name if you are interested. I am not even sure if I am allowed to post to that link and I am also tired of getting yelled at for that. I am just to old for drama.
I feel that quarantining is the " main" reason so many people have so many problems with fish. Quarantining destroys a fishes immune system that depends on bacteria and parasites to function. Now that I said that, see how many people disagree with that. Then look at how many times they posted on disease forums. This hobby is still running in 1975 theories, as there are as many disease threads now as there was in the beginning, but it is very slowly changing.

There are so many people on here and other forums that will just argue with me that I almost stopped posting these things. But articles are around, you just have to look for them.
I am tired of hearing that if you don't quarantine you are playing Russian Roulete. My tank is 45 years old for Gods sake. How long does it have to be immune before it is taken seriously? That is just because those people don't want to do a few things to get their fish immune and would rather post on disease forums. I tried to help over many years and now I am tired. That's why I wrote a book, so I wouldn't have to post it again and again.
Have a great day and I hope you and your fish never get sick