Overdosed alkalinity

diabolical_clownfish

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I've had an issue with my tank - been doing some research, and I'm pretty sure I figured out the problem, but still wanted to make a post to sanity check as well as to provide a reference to others since I haven't seen this exact combination of keywords.

I made a post a few months ago since I noticed that my alkalinity drops very fast yet my calcium level barely dips. So for a while, I have been dosing baking soda for alk and not testing calcium that much.

This, however, has changed recently, and two weeks ago I tested my calcium at a very low 280. This prompted me to do the following:

- Two water changes to bring up the calcium from 280 to 360.
- Switch to All-for-Reef for both alkalinity and calcium (have a 35 gallon tank and a single doser, figured this was the easiest solution)

However, after a week of AFR, my calcium level was still not up to my target of 420. I read online that AFR is good for maintaining a level, but if the calcium level is severely off, I needed to compensate some other way. I remembered that I won a bottle of Seachem Calcium from a frag swap some months ago, and figured why not make use of it. My calculation:

- Water volume ~25 gallon
- Raise calcium from 360 to 420
- Needed to dose 25 capfuls of Seachem Calcium (125 mL, or 25 cap fulls)
- Instructions says not to dose more than 3 cap fulls per day for every 20 gallons.

This is where things went wrong. After 3 days of dosing 3 cap fulls (morning, noon, night), I noticed:

- My alkalinity went up to 14.5 (tested on Day 4)
- Starting day 2, my filter floss is clogging all the time, with a clear substance - presumably calcium carbonate precipitant
- Starting on day 3, a white stringy substance started to appear in the tank, some surrounding corals, others originating from the rocks. I initially thought it was hair algae dying. Then thought coral mucus, then thought a bacteria bloom (overall water is not cloudy)
- My cleaner shrimp is dead after a year (this morning), other fish and corals seem ok

With these symptoms, my conclusion is that Seachem Calcium will add alkalinity as well and I effectively overdosed alkalinity with the combination of AFR and Seachem. What I should have done was to buy some BRS Calcium Chloride. As for the white substance, I believe it is caused by the polygluconate (a sugar) in the Seachem.

Now, my question:

- What is the white stringy substance floating around and what do I do with it? If it's bacteria, perhaps UV?
- How do I lower alkalinity back to normal levels? 1) Just stop all dosing and let it drop naturally? 2) big water change? (seems like a bad idea to double shock the tank).

The death of the cleaner shrimp makes me a bit uneasy but still planning to wait it out and just let levels drop naturally, as my remaining fish seem fine and the corals are open (just not fully extended).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
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As far as microbial stuff in the water cloudiness or trubidity isn't a good indicator, this paper found in a tightly controlled system microbial levels were all over the place and didn't necessarliy coincide with turbidity.

I would attribute the slime primarily to the corals being irritated and shedding their mucus layers. These mucus layers are quite dynamic and microbial stuff in them will change causing corals to shed to restablish beneficial numbers.

At this point I'd be doing water changes and keeping a close eye on alkalinity, calcium and magnesium and just be patient. Your corals have been stressed to varius degrees and it may take some weeks to months for some to fully recover.
 
Do enough of a water change to get the alk and Ca back to reasonable levels.

Quit trying to take the easy road.

Get alk and Ca to add separately (I use unconventional chemicals: soda ash from a swimming pool supply for alk and Dow Flake snow & ice melt for Ca). Test both regularly and do your dosing manually until you get the numbers right and stable for a month.
 
As far as microbial stuff in the water cloudiness or trubidity isn't a good indicator, this paper found in a tightly controlled system microbial levels were all over the place and didn't necessarliy coincide with turbidity.

I would attribute the slime primarily to the corals being irritated and shedding their mucus layers. These mucus layers are quite dynamic and microbial stuff in them will change causing corals to shed to restablish beneficial numbers.

At this point I'd be doing water changes and keeping a close eye on alkalinity, calcium and magnesium and just be patient. Your corals have been stressed to varius degrees and it may take some weeks to months for some to fully recover.
Thank you! How much water would you change? You are not concerned about shocking the corals further?
 
I'm not sure what you're using for testing, but Seachem Calcium doesn't contain alkalinity - so something else is amiss here. I think you probably added way too much calcium (I dose less than 5ml/daily on a 200-gallon mixed reef).

I agree with the assessments and suggestions from @Timfish and @Ron Reefman.
 
I'm not sure what you're using for testing, but Seachem Calcium doesn't contain alkalinity - so something else is amiss here. I think you probably added way too much calcium (I dose less than 5ml/daily on a 200-gallon mixed reef).

I agree with the assessments and suggestions from @Timfish and @Ron Reefman.
I found one of @Randy Holmes-Farley 's response in another post:


"Seachem Reef Calcium is calcium polygluconate. If and when the polygluconate part is metabolized by bacteria, the result is alkalinity and driving of some bacterial growth"

Because otherwise how do you explain the increased alk levels? (Salifert test kit)
 
Thank you! How much water would you change? You are not concerned about shocking the corals further?

You're welciome! I would be worried about the corals but they'll do better with lower alkalinity so I'd start with say 5% - 10% then monitor the system for a day or two then do 5% - 20% depending on how things look but not do more than 20% a week. As soon as the corals "look" happier and alkalinity si down around 10 or 11 dKH I's slow down on ht ewater changes.
 
"Seachem Reef Calcium is calcium polygluconate. If and when the polygluconate part is metabolized by bacteria, the result is alkalinity and driving of some bacterial growth"

Because otherwise how do you explain the increased alk levels? (Salifert test kit)
Interesting - I wasn't aware of that (and I think most people would assume "calcium" is regular calcium chloride and not calcium polygluconate). So yeah, adding a lot of Seachem Calcium probably caused the various reactions and alkalinity spike.

I'd stop dosing, throw out the Sechem Calcium and implement the recommended water changes.
 
Interesting - I wasn't aware of that (and I think most people would assume "calcium" is regular calcium chloride and not calcium polygluconate). So yeah, adding a lot of Seachem Calcium probably caused the various reactions and alkalinity spike.

I'd stop dosing, throw out the Sechem Calcium and implement the recommended water changes.
Indeed!
 
You're welciome! I would be worried about the corals but they'll do better with lower alkalinity so I'd start with say 5% - 10% then monitor the system for a day or two then do 5% - 20% depending on how things look but not do more than 20% a week. As soon as the corals "look" happier and alkalinity si down around 10 or 11 dKH I's slow down on ht ewater changes.
Unfortunately, the salt I usually use is Reef Crystals, which according to this table:
1658238692810.png

...has 13 dKH. Water changes with this salt wouldn't necessarily help me drop alk by very much. Buying one of the lower alk salts online will take a few days and I suspect natural consumption would have taken my alk down by then. This was my original reasoning in "waiting it out".
 
Unfortunately, the salt I usually use is Reef Crystals, which according to this table:
Not sure where you sourced that table, but most of those alkalinity levels are inaccurate (Tropic Marin is something like 7.5-8.0 dKH, which I use). Go off the bucket - not anything you find online.

Reef Crystals has an average alkalinity (~8 dKH) from what I remember.
 
Not sure where you sourced that table, but most of those alkalinity levels are inaccurate (Tropic Marin is something like 7.5-8.0 dKH, which I use). Go off the bucket - not anything you find online.

Reef Crystals has an average alkalinity (~8 dKH) from what I remember.
Gotcha, thanks!
 
Cryptic sponges are also dumping DIC into the water most of which is likely to be in the form of HCO3 - alklinity.

I've not heard of this before. Where did you see it? I think the only way a sponge could boost alk is by dissolving calcium carbonate.
 
Update: I did a water change in the afternoon and cleared out the back chambers and as much of the white slimy stuff as possible. I measured the paramters earlier and the alk is at 13.7 and nitrate is at 0 (down from a consistent 3-ish for the past few months).

The 0 nitrate again makes me suspect that the white slim is a bacteria bloom from the Seachem Calcium's polygluconate, which has consumed all nitrate. The lack of polyp extension (I have mostly LPS corals) is from the lack of nitrate (and perhaps also the stress of parameters swings).

There is another post that might be relevent:


After 5 pages of discussions, no one seems to know where it came from (as the OP was not carbon dosing). Seems like a very similar situation to me.

Current plan is still sitting back and observing if the alk can dip further on its own. Should I dose some nitrate to bring it back up?
 
Jasper de Goeij's thesis work. Significanat percentages of the DOC consumed by cryptic sponges is released as DIC. As I understand DIC, at the pH of typical reefs systems roughly slightly more than 90% is in the form of HCO3.

Ok, he is suggesting some local dissolution of calcium carbonate:

“ Excess DIC release is attributed to H. caerulea respiration driven dissolution of the attached coral rock. Dissolution of CaCO3 increases DIC by 1 mol for each mol of calcium carbonate dissolved (Gattuso et al. 1995), leaving a ΔDIC/ΔtOC for H. caerulea respiration of 0.45. “
 
Update: I did a water change in the afternoon and cleared out the back chambers and as much of the white slimy stuff as possible. I measured the paramters earlier and the alk is at 13.7 and nitrate is at 0 (down from a consistent 3-ish for the past few months).

The 0 nitrate again makes me suspect that the white slim is a bacteria bloom from the Seachem Calcium's polygluconate, which has consumed all nitrate. The lack of polyp extension (I have mostly LPS corals) is from the lack of nitrate (and perhaps also the stress of parameters swings).

There is another post that might be relevent:


After 5 pages of discussions, no one seems to know where it came from (as the OP was not carbon dosing). Seems like a very similar situation to me.

Current plan is still sitting back and observing if the alk can dip further on its own. Should I dose some nitrate to bring it back up?

White slime is typically bacteria, as you note. Perhaps the right species and conditions existed for it. There’s no particular reason one shouldn’t see bacteria in a reef tank..
 

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