Overdosed Ammonium Hydroxide

[NewRobert]

The rocks were dry, in a box with the CaribSea logo on it. This is what they looked like outside of the tank - you can see a bit of the box on the right there:

(Sorry I am still rather clueless, first Marine Tank, was trusting the LFS to put it all together)

 

[brandon429]

nice. the one detail that adds isnt a big deal but it helps: those caribsea rocks have painted on bacteria and bac feed in it, per the site and we also collect those types of cycles in plenty of other threads, they self activate in 12 days underwater or so, even with no feed.
you've created a + feed situation that wont hurt anything, it'll just mask progress if you base all your testing on wastewater

if this was my reef, I would simply let things stew as is for about 12 days total, change out nearly all the water and it will be ready

if changing all the water isn't practical/large tank then polyfilter it for nitrate on that date, drive numbers down by some degree of water change and use polyfilters designed to scrub extra ammonia and nitrate out of water--because if you dont you'll have lots of algae fuel water for the new tank and because it'll take weeks to filter down that much wastewater, unnecessary wait.

wait till about two weeks total, change water, cycled.

 

[brandon429]

Update lol just read

You're at two weeks, ok go then change and begin driving down the ammonia, I thought it was just starting.

Let's see updated full tank pic, clear water vs cloudy helps in troubleshooting

If no ammonia moved down the water will be hazy. If clear, after known bacterial action, that much overage and time, you can change water and get levels down manually vs wait-we are just clearing out bulk wastewater now vs waiting. We only need two weeks, in any condition. Starting with clean water, big water change is next step.

I don't deny your current test of high ammonia, that much starting boost adds massive wait time. Am stating to change water or poly filter that ammonia back out to speed up, revealing the filter bacteria on surfaces but with cleaner water on top


what we are doing is before adding fish, its setting up your tank for them and proofing it ahead of time.

 

[K7BMG]

So here is my thought and opinion.

So I have to scold you here like it or not.
Do not add sacrificial fish for entertainment that's just cruel.
If you don't respect the lives of the fish well maybe this is not the hobby for you.
I hope that was a joke or sarcastic statement, and not a real thought.
It will not teach your children to respect life if you do not.
Ok scolding over.

So you overdosed the ammonia ok. you should have simply done a 50% water change to reduce the overdose and let it alone. That time has passed and your on to what you have today.

With the addition of Seachem Stability your changing the ammonia and not allowing the beneficial bacteria to do the job like it is supposed to do. Thus defeating the goal.
This product is primarily used for a livestock filled tank and you have ammonia issue arise, and you have to act fast.
It does the job of the bacteria that is not doing the proper job for whatever reason.

I don't know what Bacter-Gen MD is, or will do for you. This is the first I have heard of this product so I have no idea if its good or bad.
I took a look and I see this is your introduction of beneficial bacteria to the system.

So IMO if your having a second ammonia spike then the bacteria is or has not grown, and may be dyeing off. Thus creating a spike.

As you have not added anything for two weeks are you sure nothing was introduced without your knowledge?

I recommend buying a bottle of Dr Tims one and only, or BioSpira and adding this to the tank, nothing more. No water changes nothing for the next two weeks.
Then test foe ammonia and Nitrate. it should be Ammonia 0 and Nitrate 20ish more or less.
Do a 60% water change wait 24 hours and test again. If Nitrate is down then you may be able to add a fish.

While your waiting please research the nitrogen cycle information here on reef2reef.
There are comprehensive threads that will explain the nitrogen cycle and what its about.

Click Here

 

[NewRobert]

So here is my thought and opinion.

So I have to scold you here like it or not.
Do not add sacrificial fish for entertainment that's just cruel.
If you don't respect the lives of the fish well maybe this is not the hobby for you.
I hope that was a joke or sarcastic statement, and not a real thought.
It will not teach your children to respect life if you do not.
Ok scolding over.

That was never a real thought, this is why we're still waiting to get all the ammonia gone.

As it turns out, day before yesterday's perceived ammonia spike was incompetence on my part. I used 10ml of water for the test (which is what I normally would do for freshwater tanks) instead of 5ml as I have done before for this marine tank and as indicated by the instructions. The actual level of NH4 is 2mg/l.

I am still stuck at 2 ppm of NH4. It has been there since the 17th of last month, so a little over 3 weeks.

My Nitrite is 0.2 ppm, which has been stuck there since it climbed from 0.1 to 0.2 between the 22nd and 27th of last month (so about 2 weeks ago).

My Nitrate is at 10 ppm which has also been there for about 2 weeks or so (I last read 5ppm on the 22nd of July).

Unfortunately neither Dr Tims or BioSpira is available in my country from all the local fish places I contacted.

All things considered since the NH4 is 2 ppm instead of my panic yesterday of 10. Should I still be changing water around or just leave it patiently until my ammonia gets to 0?

Water used to be a little cloudy, but pretty clear at the moment.

 

[Calm Blue Ocean]

I just looked up the products you used and it looks to me like bacter gen-MD is a denitrator which may be getting ahead of yourself a bit. From the same company, bacter gen-M looks to be their nitrification bacteria for starting new aquariums.

 

[K7BMG]

Well it seems strange that things are stuck like this.
But I am not familiar with the products you have available and are using.

Another strange thing to me is the test kits you are using.
They work on both Saltwater and Freshwater. Interesting.
The test kits are not old and expired are they?

Another thing i would do is mix a batch of fresh saltwater and then test that. It should be 0 across the board but a good way to check the tests.

Well I feel I would ghost feed the tank everyother day with just a little food. Less is more in this case.

As you say the water is clearing thats a good thing.
Look for the next stage of the ugly stage, brown algae growth.
You should be running your lights.

So have you done anything since the 22nd?
Water changes, added anything other than top off water etc.

What salt mix are you using?

 

[NewRobert]

For test kits I am using Sera's Ammonia test. Tropic Marin's Nitrite/Nitrate test. Checked again, not expired.

I tested RO/DI Water with tests, comes back 0/0/0. Will do a salt mix and test that again.

The salt is Continuum's salt Halcyon Marine Reef Salt.

I am running my lights daily (8 hours on, both blue and white).

Nothing at all done since the 22nd, except waiting for time to pass.

Sorry about the weird products, it's just what my LFS recommended/sold to me for this.

 

[NewRobert]

Sorry one more update since I am now looking at the tank more clearly.

I am growing green stuff on my white rocks. Also in some areas the sand looks differently-coloured as well. Please see pictures attached.

My UV is still off and my skimmer has never been on either just for reference. Nothing besides RO/DI water, Salt and the rinsed rock has been into the tank with the exception of Ammonia Hydroxide, Seachem Stability and Continuum Bacter-Gen MD

 

[K7BMG]

Well stuff growing is a good sign.
You might be done with the initial cycle.

If it were me I would do a 50% water change (testing the fresh mix) wait 24-48 hours test the tank.
Depending on the results it may be time for a fish, and a few members of the clean up crew.
Did you plan on quarantining the fish?

 

[NewRobert]

I unfortunately do not have a quarantine tank yet. I put some seachem matrix in my sump to use to seed a future QT, I also have a soon to be empty 3.5 gallon freshwater tank I figured I would use for that with a small internal filter.

I am already filling buckets with ro/di water in anticipation of a water change.

When I do a 50% water change, what am I hoping to see before I add the cleanup crew?

I assume if I do a 50% water change my current values will just half? Do I then wait to see if ammonia drops completely to 0? Should I add Seachem Prime maybe to ensure the fish are okay when I do eventually add them?

Also, where can I get suggestions on what to get for an initial cleanup crew before adding a clownfish? Can I add them together? The kids are leaving in 3 weeks for a long time and they have been patiently waiting to see a fish in the tank, would've liked to have at least 1 clown in before they go, but I understand the realities of the system needing to be ready.

 

[K7BMG]

Quit with the prime for now.
If you have an ammonia issue it will alter the test.

I would just get a few snails to start.
I like Trochus if you can get them.

After the water change and another day or so and you come up with a 0 ammonia and 0 Nitrite and no more than 20 Nitrate I would go ahead and add your livestock.

If your going with Clown's I would try for a juvenile pair.
Often if one gets established in a tank it does not take kindly to a newcomer and will kill it.

Do your best to make sure they are healthy specimens.
The eyes should be clear.
Breathing slow and steady
Moving around, they may stay in a given section of the tank but healthy ones dont hover.
Skin should be clear of flaws or white bumps.
Should not have a hazy film.
Ask what they have been fed and buy the same stuff for now.
Do a little research on their care and feeding requirements.

Aclamate them properly by.
Testing the water they come in for temp and salinity.
It is harder on the fish to go from a low to high salinity.
Most LFS seem to keep lower salinitys.

 

[NewRobert]

Thank you for the advice, I have decided to go ahead with the 50% water change.

I am currently shopping around for a 120l / 30gallon water tank to do salt mix and heat for my water changes. I learned the hard way that trying to do that with 20 buckets is not really such a smart idea.

 

[NewRobert]

I am currently not able to spend any more money for a large drum. I sourced one, but at the cost with some other expenses we're having with half the family moving cross-country, it is a little tight.

So I am currently mixing salt+ro/di in 3 x 25l / 6.5gal buckets. I only have 2 heaters so playing whack-a-mole moving it around between them. I put some spare freshwater pumps in the buckers for some circulation. Once I have the 3 mixed, I will mix another 3 at a time and then again another 2. Once I have all 8 buckets mixed up, I will probably heat the room up with a gas heater to help, take out the water and do the musical-chairs thing again with the heaters/pumps to put the 8 readied buckets back in.

Just waiting for salt to dissolve so I can ready my water.

 

[NewRobert]

I did a 50% water change (200l). I tested the saltwater mix and I got 0ppm ammonia, My ammonia in the tank after the water change is still at 1ppm. I tested right before the water change and 2 hours after the water change.

I haven't dosed any additives or anything at all.

I don't know what to do now. Please help?

The 1ppm test result is from Sera's test-kit. I also have a Tropic-Marin test kit, but it doesn't even register a colour anywhere close to what is on the chart. The same Tropic-Marin test kit does the same with my freshwater tanks by the way (just thought I'd mention I tried a second test kit).

I have included a the colour test result of the Sera kit.

Thank you in advance, not sure what to do. I don't understand how the ammonia went from 1ppm and stayed at 1ppm after a 50% water change.

On a second note, I am concerned about flow problems affecting me, just wanted to ask if my weirdness could be because of bad flow? My one powerhead stopped working entirely (pulling it out tonight) and since the beginning I had to limit my overflow quite substantially as the pump is rated for 1800l/h (475gal/h). Could either of these issues be affecting me?

Salinity still stable after water change (1.024).

 

[NewRobert]

*Bump*

Anyone have any ideas here?

 

[NewRobert]

It turns out my water just had to mix around a little bit. My ammonia is finally at 0.5 mg/l. Waiting for it to drop to know that things are moving.

 

[Dcal]

It turns out my water just had to mix around a little bit. My ammonia is finally at 0.5 mg/l. Waiting for it to drop to know that things are moving.

Thats good. I know its tough to do but just let it finish on its own without adding anything else

 

[NewRobert]

Hi All,

I wanted to say thank you for all of the support over here so far.

At the moment my water parameters are as follow:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: >=2ppm
Nitrate >=50ppm

Questions:

1. Should I wait for the Nitrite to go down to 0 before considering a water change and adding fish?

2. How big of water change should I do before adding fish?

3. Won't be ammonia converting bacteria stop doing their job if this takes while since it is already at 0?

4. UV is still off, should I turn it on now or leave it be?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Dcal]

1. It should go down on its own
2. Id do like 20-40% to get it down to 25-40ppm unless you are stocking with really sensitive things
3. I don't think it'll take too long but keep taking readings
4. not sure
But hopefully others chime in soon