Overdosing 2-Part with Kalk?

[135reef]

Looking for input from the experts regarding possible overdosing 2-Part + Kalk and reaction after turning off Alk/Ca.

160g bare bottom tank (200g total)
Started with dry rock 15mo ago
Heavy Coraline coverage
Multiple small SPS frags
UV, Skimmer, Algae reactor
Heavy water flow (6x MP40s)
Constant water change w/RC

In order to maintain Alk ~8.5 and Ca ~420, I was dosing 275-300ml/day of BRS 2-part and Kalk for evaporation. Dosing Mg was not driving any changes from ~1276.
Pumps and heaters get heavy calcification. MP40s need tear-down every 3-4 weeks. COR15 return pumps (2X) require full tear-down every 3-4mo.

I turned Alk, Ca and water change for 24hrs. Ca dropped from 8.6-7.6(confirmed with Hanna). Calcium shows a small bounce, but RedSea Ca test looks closer to flat or slight increase. BRS calculator estimates Alk loading at 143ml (Soda Ash) or about 1/2 of what I was dosing.

My plan is to restart Alk dosing at 145ml/day and see how Ca reacts, but it still feels like a ton of Alk for a low SPS loaded tank at this point. Rock is fully covered with Coraline. I prefer my Mg in the 1350 range, but when dosing 275ml of Ca and Alk per day, it doesn't move

Nitrates are 0 via IPC this week
Phosphates are 0 via ICP this week

What am I missing from a reaction/interaction standpoint?

-DC

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What's missing from the post is the amount of alk added daily in dKH. That's the easiest way to judge the dosing.

 

[135reef]

What's missing from the post is the amount of alk added daily in dKH. That's the easiest way to judge the dosing.

Thanks Randy - Forgive the stupid question, but for saturated Soda Ash solution, the calculator say 1ml of Alk solution will provide +1dKH for 1.4 gallons of water. Then for 275ml of Alk solution over 200g water volume would mean I'm dosing ~1.92dKH/day? Roughly 2X what the calculator says I should be dosing for 1dKH consumer over 24hrs.

I've turned Ca and Mg dosing off and reset the Alk to dose 145ml/day. If the Alk remains stable, I'll manually bring Alk up to my target and see what happens to Ca before adjusting. Is it safe to say the fallacy in my dosing plan was to keep Alk and Ca effectively balanced but by adding too much Alk, I was over dosing Ca causing instability.

I think I'm still missing something.

Thanks,
Doug

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks Randy - Forgive the stupid question, but for saturated Soda Ash solution, the calculator say 1ml of Alk solution will provide +1dKH for 1.4 gallons of water. Then for 275ml of Alk solution over 200g water volume would mean I'm dosing ~1.92dKH/day? Roughly 2X what the calculator says I should be dosing for 1dKH consumer over 24hrs.

I've turned Ca and Mg dosing off and reset the Alk to dose 145ml/day. If the Alk remains stable, I'll manually bring Alk up to my target and see what happens to Ca before adjusting. Is it safe to say the fallacy in my dosing plan was to keep Alk and Ca effectively balanced but by adding too much Alk, I was over dosing Ca causing instability.

I think I'm still missing something.

Thanks,
Doug

What solution are you making? It likely is not saturated, but made from a particular recipe?

Assuming you mean the BRS recipe (which is my DIY #1), yes, the two part is adding just under 2 dKH per day. You cna use this calculator to get an exact number by trying different alk boosts and seeing how much of Randy's DIY #1 is needed:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Some precipitation on heaters and pumps is normal, and the higher the pH and alk, the faster it is, but if it is excessive (sand is hardening, pumps seizing up, etc.), here's my standard guidelines for breaking the cycle:


1. Stop all efforts to boost pH.
2. Stop dosing alk for a bit and let it decline.
3. Reduce pH by switching to a low pH alk mix like sodium bicarbonate, or a calcium organic such as Tropic Marin All for Reef.
4. Ensure magnesium is normal to high.
5. Keep organics and phosphate on the high side.

After a few days of not dosing alk, restart slowly, adding additives to a very high flow area so it mixes in fast.

 

[bdare]

Please try using the baking soda version. Seen it too many times that the precipitation in the soda ash causes people problems with stability.

 

[135reef]

What solution are you making? It likely is not saturated, but made from a particular recipe?

Assuming you mean the BRS recipe (which is my DIY #1), yes, the two part is adding just under 2 dKH per day. You cna use this calculator to get an exact number by trying different alk boosts and seeing how much of Randy's DIY #1 is needed:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Some precipitation on heaters and pumps is normal, and the higher the pH and alk, the faster it is, but if it is excessive (sand is hardening, pumps seizing up, etc.), here's my standard guidelines for breaking the cycle:


1. Stop all efforts to boost pH.
2. Stop dosing alk for a bit and let it decline.
3. Reduce pH by switching to a low pH alk mix like sodium bicarbonate, or a calcium organic such as Tropic Marin All for Reef.
4. Ensure magnesium is normal to high.
5. Keep organics and phosphate on the high side.

After a few days of not dosing alk, restart slowly, adding additives to a very high flow area so it mixes in fast.

Please try using the baking soda version. Seen it too many times that the precipitation in the soda ash causes people problems with stability.

@Randy Holmes-Farley and @bdare - Thank you for the feedback and direction. The guidance is much appreciated,.

Randy - I was reading back through your 2-Part receipt thread late last night and realized I forgot a few things over the years.

Thanks again!
Doug

 

[135reef]

Update:

Alk = Off
Ca = Off
Mg = Driving from 1251 > 1325
Kalk = Off
AWC = Off
Filter socks out
Skimmer = On
Algae Reactor = On
UV = On

pH = 8.21 @ Noon (8.26 @6pm)
Alk = 8.26 @ Noon (7.99 @ 6pm)
Ca = 373 @ Noon (403 @ 6pm)
Mg = 1269 @ Noon (1251@6pm - After adding 100ml of BRS liquid Magnesium)

Nitrate = 0 (Nyos)
Phosphate = 0.02 (Hanna)

I need to stop chasing numbers and let things settle down, but I'm perplexed why Mg went down after dosing unless it's the balancing of the system.

Thanks again,
Doug

 

[135reef]

Update:

Alk = Off
Ca = Off
Mg = Off (Manually dosing)
Kalk = Off
AWC = Off
Filter socks out
Skimmer = On
Algae Reactor = On
UV = On

pH = Swinging between 8.04-8.28
Alk = At 6.69 and dropping
Ca = At 369 and dropping
Mg = 1348 on the way to ~1390

Based on the advice, next step is to start adding Alk (Recipe #2) and Calcium (Recipe #1) slowly manually to get things back to "normal" and see where we land. Using the calculator, a Alk of ~8.5dKh should be around 421ppm Ca.

I'll leave Kalk offline until I understand where the balance is. Or would it be better to bring Alk + Ca up manually, restart Kalk and then dose Alk + Ca based on burn rate?

Thanks again,
Doug

 

[135reef]

Update

Things settled down over the weekend. Got everything balanced up with Mg, Alk Recipe #2 and Ca Recipe #1. Started dosing Recipe #1 Alk again into very high flow area.

Last 24hrs
Alk 8.4 > 7.75 w/45ml Recipe #1 dosed or demand of ~145ml/day
Ca 411 > 409 with swing, but averaged out. Will continue to minor
Mg ~1400 steady

Ideally, I'd stick with Recipe #1 Alk because I have a 5g bucket of Soda Ash, but if it's part of my problem given relatively stable pH, I can move to Recipe #2.

Is the drop in Alk coincident with the rise in pH from dosing Recipe #1 Alk or just burn off of Alk during the high photo period during the day?

It feels like I've been here before. Started ramping Alk back up, added Ca and suddenly found myself dosing 275-300ml of Recipe #1 and Recipe #2. Perhaps I started to fast last time or need to switch to Recipe #2 Alk?

Thanks guys...

 

[Saltywaterbox]

Any update on this?

I hit the same wall again of getting scale buildup too fast.
Recipe #1, 2.8DKH/day for a 30 gallon system full of SPS and frags.

Did switching to Recipe #2 for Alk help?

 

[135reef]

Any update on this?

I hit the same wall again of getting scale buildup too fast.
Recipe #1, 2.8DKH/day for a 30 gallon system full of SPS and frags.

Did switching to Recipe #2 for Alk help?

I shut everything off for a few days and used Recipe #2 Alk to get closer to my target. Let the system idle for another day and calculated my new use rate at ~152ml Recipe #1 Alk per day. I found the adjustments much more consistent with Recipe #2. Once stable, I restarted Recipe #1 Alk and started manually dosing Ca slowly before auto-dosing. At @75ml/day Recipe #1 Ca, the Ca is relatively stable, but it's lower than I would like so I'm going to manually dose Ca and see how the Alk reacts.

Mg has been solid at ~1400 after balancing up. Honestly, if I didn't have a 5g bucket of Soda Ash, I'd convert to Recipe #2.

Phosphates and Nitrates are still zero after removing the filter socks and I autofeed pellets 3x/day to keep the Anthias happy and frozen every night.



If your pH is stable, I'd try Recipe #2.