Overpriced lighting

[dawson reynolds]

I know name brand lights like Kessil and Radion rights are high quality and have a lot of r&d cost but isn’t led lights relatively cheap to produce? I can’t see a xr-30 costing more than $250 to produce and they charge close to $850. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see how they have that much going in to a light

 

[Jamesrup0411]

What do you run ?

 

[magicwhistle]

Well you have to ensure everything is reliable so they probably source higher cost quality controlled products. Then they have to assemble and pay people to do so and have the facilities to do so. Then you have to quality control test them and make sure not only they work but they’re safe. Gotta market them and ship them. And all these steps involve various peoples of various professions earning a salary. You gotta pay yourself a bit too.

And when you do all that and build a name and reputation you tack on a premium.

 

[Uncle99]

I know name brand lights like Kessil and Radion rights are high quality and have a lot of r&d cost but isn’t led lights relatively cheap to produce? I can’t see a xr-30 costing more than $250 to produce and they charge close to $850. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see how they have that much going in to a light

Your not wrong at all!
Complete rip off, with super high margins and high Labour costs.

That’s why I bought a CBB, Chinese Black Box, a Visparspectra, which cost me 150 Cdn.
I was surprised at the high quality, running 3.5 years now, and most important.....grow anything well.

The Radion is $700 dollars more each and I needed two.
So for $1400, I get more controls which corals don’t use, just the light, nice and simple.

 

[dawson reynolds]

What do you run ?

A ocean revive black box. Cheap but it works (I know it’s definitely not as good as a Radion)

 

[Stoney]

There's a new thread about this same topic every few weeks. Whether it's led lights or coral frags, the price is determined by what people are willing to pay. It doesn't matter how much it costs to produce. If the market supports a particular price point, it doesn't make sense for the company to sell it cheaper.

 

[dawson reynolds]

There's a new thread about this same topic every few weeks. Whether it's led lights or coral frags, the price is determined by what people are willing to pay. It doesn't matter how much it costs to produce. If the market supports a particular price point, it doesn't make sense for the company to sell it cheaper.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’d just like to know how much these really cost to produce

 

[justmee]

Isn't everything in this hobby expensive...??

 

[ReefLab]

IMO kessils are the only "premium" light worth it because of their proprietary dense matrix. It gives incredible shimmer, spread, and absolutely no banding of colors. Orpheks, radions, black boxes, hydras and pretty much every other light functions on distinct diodes.
Of course the black boxes generally don't have as much controllability but I wouldn't consider radions because how similar the technology is to much less expensive competition.
Nothing compares to kessils.

 

[dawson reynolds]

Isn't everything in this hobby expensive...??

It is. I honestly think just about everything in this hobby is expensive just because the main mindset on reefing is “best of the best”

 

[dawson reynolds]

IMO kessils are the only "premium" light worth it because of their proprietary dense matrix. It gives incredible shimmer, spread, and absolutely no banding of colors. Orpheks, radions, black boxes, hydras and pretty much every other light functions on distinct diodes.
Of course the black boxes generally don't have as much controllability but I wouldn't consider radions because how similar the technology is to much less expensive competition.
Nothing compares to kessils.

I’d honestly like to know how much a a80 cost to produce

 

[blasterman]

Assume a 25% production cost of American lights. That's kinda typical for offshored electronics.

They are relatively low volume, so costs are higher so they can recoup profit. I give kessil kudos for being innovative. Radion however....ukk.

I've been tempted to design and crowd source a solid line of lights with max firepower and coverage per dollar but the lack of high wattage royal chips keeps stopping me.

 

[Oldreefer44]

As mentioned previously, this is a weekly subject. You have to define "worth it". Are certain clothing brands with a 90% gross margin "worth it"? Most responses will tell you that the lights they have are "worth it" because as people we like validation for our choices. There are many lights that will work at all different price levels. Only you can decide what "worth it" means to you.

 

[ReefLab]

I’d honestly like to know how much a a80 cost to produce

well kessil is a subsidiary of a very large company who does extensive research on light in many industries. They're one of the only manufacturers that bring that kind of expertise.

take a look: https://www.kessil.com/about/technologies.php

"[The dense matrix] patented design is the result of over 30 million dollars in investments and five years of diligent research by DiCon."

 

[dawson reynolds]

As mentioned previously, this is a weekly subject. You have to define "worth it". Are certain clothing brands with a 90% gross margin "worth it"? Most responses will tell you that the lights they have are "worth it" because as people we like validation for our choices. There are many lights that will work at all different price levels. Only you can decide what "worth it" means to you.

Again I understand some people are willing to dish out that much for lights. I’m just saying that I wonder if they are charging people for a name or if their product is really that expensive to produce.

 

[swiss1939]

Coming from the film world where there is a very similar industry of lighting products shifting heavily towards led light fixtures, i find it very funny the lack of discussion on the CRI rating of these reef lighting fixtures in the sw hobby. It makes sense that everyone is more concerned with par, but there is also a ton of manufacturer boasting of wavelengths and presets of combined wavelengths from various leds in their fixtures, but no actual CRI data to guarantee the accuracy of those wavelengths.

The cri of fixtures in the film world really drive the market in terms of pricing with extremely high cri fixtures commanding the higher price point, because this defines the color accuracy recorded on camera and hence... cheap low cri lights end up costing big budget movies more money in post correcting for their poor color accuracy.

Being new to sw, i actually expected cri to be more intensely discussed because of how detailed and precise people in the hobby tend to be.

I'd love to see @Bulk Reef Supply or someone else do an actual cri test or any other wavelength accuracy test that exists on all these fixtures to see if they are actually providing accurate color/wavelength targets or are just ballparking it. Cause that will tell you if their LEDs used in their products are actually worth the money. Everything else in their fixtures is just markup like the infamous gold audio cables sold in home audio back in the 90's!

 

[dawson reynolds]

well kessil is a subsidiary of a very large company who does extensive research on light in many industries. They're one of the only manufacturers that bring that kind of expertise.

take a look: https://www.kessil.com/about/technologies.php

"[The dense matrix] patented design is the result of over 30 million dollars in investments and five years of diligent research by DiCon."

So the rd cost are more than the actual cost to build the light?

 

[Scotty Buttons]

welcome to capitalism

 

[dawson reynolds]

Assume a 25% production cost of American lights. That's kinda typical for offshored electronics.

They are relatively low volume, so costs are higher so they can recoup profit. I give kessil kudos for being innovative. Radion however....ukk.

I've been tempted to design and crowd source a solid line of lights with max firepower and coverage per dollar but the lack of high wattage royal chips keeps stopping me.

So you think that a $600 light cost about $150 to produce?

 

[dawson reynolds]

welcome to capitalism

Still better than the alternatives